Opinions on Ferguson MO

[RedBusarider]

Kinda surprised that I haven't seen this topic posted yet.

So What do you think of the Ferguson MO case and The Grand Jury's decision?

I'm not surprised that there was more damage done.
The Officer in question has to be in hiding and afraid for his life.
I won't be surprised if he is injured at some point in the future.

 

[Lycan6]

Kinda surprised that I haven't seen this topic posted yet. So What do you think of the Ferguson MO case and The Grand Jury's decision? I'm not surprised that there was more damage done. The Officer in question has to be in hiding and afraid for his life. I won't be surprised if he is injured at some point in the future.

I'm not surprised tree hasn't been any comments on this case. There rarely are ever comments about things like this on the forum. I can only assume it's because people are worried about being pegged a racist because of their remarks or because they have no issues with the verdict.
I wasn't surprised by the decision and I am upset because it's the same story over and over again.

 

[FlatlandBusa]

I think that in spite intense pressure form the media the grand jury followed the evidence.

The one thing I am really sick of is the media ALWAYS referring to the involved parties as the white office and the black kid. I don't care what the color of their skin is!!! The media was/is using race baiting as a way to get ratings and should be ashamed of their actions.

 

[skydivr]

The Grand Jury saw all the evidence, and unnanimously elected not to indict on all potential charges. That's called a slam-dunk.

But you know that's not what the rioting is about; it's just an excuse to be a dumbazz and burn your own shait down....people are being used and they are just too blind to see it.

 

[jellyrug]

I think that in spite intense pressure form the media the grand jury followed the evidence.

The one thing I am really sick of is the media ALWAYS referring to the involved parties as the white office and the black kid. I don't care what the color of their skin is!!! The media was/is using race baiting as a way to get ratings and should be ashamed of their actions.

I agree, we should be talking about people as human beings, not about their color.

The way I look at this whole thing is Brown came out of a gangster environment, behaved like one, stole, assaulted the store owner he stole from, resisted arrest, assaulted a police officer and got shot. Why blame the police officer? If one looks at the gangster behavior of burning down innocent bystanders property it gives us a good idea of the current value system in place in Ferguson. This is a pretty big challenge for law enforcement to try and control and repair.

One can debate that Brown was not armed and perhaps Wilson should have tried to demobilize him by blasting his knees rather than a fatal shot to the head, but in the emotion of the moment, following an assault this may have been missed reasonably.

IMHO comparing the US to most Middle Eastern countries, even without assault, just running away, he would have been shot.

On the other hand, was this in the UK, the police officer probably would not have been armed and would have made an arrest with backup or other means.

 

[RedBusarider]

The Grand Jury saw all the evidence,

Kind of hard to ask questions of a dead person. Yes all the evidence that was available?
Not sure if all the eye witnesses were interviewed? No video camera in the vehicle? ???

I don't have enough info to make a judgement. So who am I to judge.

According to the interview with the police officer there was a point when the kid walked away from him.
At that point the policeman got out of his vehicle and went towards him.

I know I wasn't there, but it seems to me that (the kid walking away) might have been the time to back down and
wait for backup to arrive. Especially after he made comments about how big and strong the kid was.
It was a judgement call I'm sure and again without being there who am I to judge?



That city is headed downhill fast as many people and businesses are going to leave.

We had a similar case about 100 miles or so from me and there was a news report that interviewed
the mayor of that town and the population is about ½ of what it was 11 years ago. Ferguson is now on that road.
But the people doing the damage can't see that. By the time they do figure that out, it will be too late.
Not sure if it's even stoppable as the train has left the station.

 

[skydivr]

You are correct, who are you to judge? Who am I to judge? And, who are the rioters to Judge?

The Grand Jury, however, IS who to judge. And they did. Unanimously. However, there are some who could care less what the Grand Jury's assement was to start with.

Really, truly: I had an open mind about this. While my instinct has always said the officer was within his powers (REGARDLESS OF COLOR), if the Jury had said there was enough evidence to indict the officer, I would have been ok with that, let it go to trial and see how it plays out.

 

[skydivr]

This kind of crap makes my blood boil:

 

[jellyrug]

This kind of crap makes my blood boil:

Just imagine being an LEO, having to do your job and protect property, based on the liability risks you face if you have to defend yourself !!!!

So I have a question for everyone who watches that video:

If you are the property owner, you are a civilian, you are armed and as per the video two criminals come to kick down your door to destroy what belongs to you, they threaten to assault you?

Do you just be a p%ssy and walk away, or do you stop them shooting them if it has to come to that?

 

[GNBRETT]

well lets see.... the 6'4 300 lb. criminal (the one who just committed a strong arm robbery 10 minutes prior) vs. a 5'7 170 lb. cop who was punched in the face and assaulted inside his police car while this criminal reached for his gun gets shot in the car as DNA evidence proved and is over powered by this criminal who was high as as kite. thats called SELF DEFENSE!

and after being shot the cop obviously is going to attempt to place him under arrest and at this point exits his police car to do just that and this beast of a man comes at him again. well, you will be shot again until you are DEAD! the criminal has already demonstrated his intention to take your weapon so what do you think he's gonna do if he gets his hands on the cop? he's gonna over power him and take his gun and kill him!

the grand jury had (3) blacks on the panel and they too agreed his force was appropriate and necessary which it was.

these animals who are burning down their own neighborhoods don't give a rats ass about the inditement. it was just an excuse to do what they do best which is be a criminal and burn down businesses that had nothn to do with nothn and of course loot the liquor store so they can continue to drink and destroy more chit.

and the father of the criminal shot (cause he aint the victim the cop is the victim) shud be arrested for inciting a riot when he said "burn this mother fuker down" he too is no better then the animals out there doing just that burning the place down.

and WTF were they thinkn releasing that verdict at night? they must really be stupid! so all day these criminals get liquered up all day so they can act like animals at night when the verdict is released smh.

how bout releasing it at 8am when these jobless criminals are home sleeping! at least the cops wud have been able to police the joint much better during daylight hours. the local schools were already shut down. pathetic preparation on their part!

 

[skydivr]

well lets see.... the 6'4 300 lb. criminal (the one who just committed a strong arm robbery 10 minutes prior) vs. a 5'7 170 lb. cop who was punched in the face and assaulted inside his police car while this criminal reached for his gun gets shot in the car as DNA evidence proved and is over powered by this criminal who was high as as kite. thats called SELF DEFENSE!

and after being shot the cop obviously is going to attempt to place him under arrest and at this point exits his police car to do just that and this beast of a man comes at him again. well, you will be shot again until you are DEAD! the criminal has already demonstrated his intention to take your weapon so what do you think he's gonna do if he gets his hands on the cop? he's gonna over power him and take his gun and kill him!

the grand jury had (3) blacks on the panel and they too agreed his force was appropriate and necessary which it was.

these animals who are burning down their own neighborhoods don't give a rats ass about the inditement. it was just an excuse to do what they do best which is be a criminal and burn down businesses that had nothn to do with nothn and of course loot the liquor store so they can continue to drink and destroy more chit.

and the father of the criminal shot (cause he aint the victim the cop is the victim) shud be arrested for inciting a riot when he said "burn this mother fuker down" he too is no better then the animals out there doing just that burning the place down.

and WTF were they thinkn releasing that verdict at night? they must really be stupid! so all day these criminals get liquered up all day so they can act like animals at night when the verdict is released smh.

how bout releasing it at 8am when these jobless criminals are home sleeping! at least the cops wud have been able to police the joint much better during daylight hours. the local schools were already shut down. pathetic preparation on their part!

Brett, I'd actually like this post. But I HAVE TO ASK YOU A QUESTION: NOW, do you UNDERSTAND why it is so important that citizens be able to arm themselves? I've seen your positions against the 2nd Amendment...does THIS not bring a dose of reality? Where were the police to protect these innocents and their property?

 

[GNBRETT]

Brett, I'd actually like this post. But I HAVE TO ASK YOU A QUESTION: NOW, do you UNDERSTAND why it is so important that citizens be able to arm themselves? I've seen your positions against the 2nd Amendment...does THIS not bring a dose of reality? Where were the police to protect these innocents and their property?

I do like how the asian store owners out in LA armed themselves with shot guns and posted signs saying "looters will be shot". I'm really surprised I didn't see this knowing these animals were gonna loot if the verdict was for the cop.

I'm pretty sure they stood on top of the roof and had others down below. but them are shot guns and a FAR better form of defense against a home or business and in my 19 yrs in LE shot guns make up maybe 1% of the street robberies, store robberies, cops shot, drive-bye's, home invasions, burglaries etc.... the other 99% come from hand guns.

 

[RedBusarider]

I'll say it again - they don't know what they are doing (the rioters) as far as destroying their own city.

Burning buildings and vehicles etc, that have nothing to do with anything and will not change anything is stupid
to say it kindly.

Do you think that the owners of the buildings that were burned or the owners of the vehicles that were burned are going to stick around?
If I owned one of those (burned buildings etc.) I would think long and hard before I decided to rebuild there.

I think the police have lost a lot of power because the people know that they are not going to shoot them if they
are unarmed for sure. And when they outnumber the police by so many that's going to make it even harder.
The National Guard won't be there forever.

It's SAD that we still live in a society where this can happen.
But I guess that will never really end. North vs South Rich vs poor, Us vs Them etc.

No one that I know of has a MAGIC WAND that they can wave to make this all correct itself or at least stop the violence.

TIME - lots of time is probably the only thing that will soften the situation. Something we all have a limited amount of.
Will we never learn? Or is it that we haven't/can't teach it to the younger generation because we are afraid of them?

 

[RedBusarider]

well lets see.... the 6'4 300 lb. criminal (the one who just committed a strong arm robbery 10 minutes prior) vs. a 5'7 170 lb. cop who was punched in the face and assaulted inside his police car while this criminal reached for his gun gets shot in the car as DNA evidence proved and is over powered by this criminal who was high as as kite. thats called SELF DEFENSE!

Maybe it's different for a Cop.

If I see trouble I would usually/probably try to get away especially if someone a lot bigger and stronger had attacked me.
Hopefully I could out run them if they were obese - and if they ran after me, then I might very well think they meant me great bodily harm or worse.
If they caught me, then at that point I would have to fight back to try and save my life by any means possible.

So Cops run towards trouble? Even when, as you pointed out, that the suspect was much bigger. Do you feel invincible because you have a gun or the law
on your side that you can overcome any situation? All good things for sure. My point was that if the officer had waited for backup things might have gone
very differently. To me there were other options. The cop could have rolled up his window, locked his doors and followed him, if he thought that he needed to do that.
If it happened that the kid got away how long do you think it would take before he was found and arrested? I think there is a really good chance that
if the kid walked away the police would find him and arrest him pretty quickly. Someone would be able to identify him IF you didn't already know who he was.

Before you jump on me, I'm not saying the cop was wrong. I'm well aware that when split second decisions have to be made, you don't have the time to think
about everything and the BEST decision is not always the one that is chosen. And I can't say that I would have done anything different if I were him.

In the end it doesn't really matter, as whats done is done.

Then again, maybe we can still learn from the past. IDK.

 

[skydivr]

Maybe it's different for a Cop.

If I see trouble I would usually/probably try to get away especially if someone a lot bigger and stronger had attacked me.
Hopefully I could out run them if they were obese - and if they ran after me, then I might very well think they meant me great bodily harm or worse.
If they caught me, then at that point I would have to fight back to try and save my life by any means possible.

So Cops run towards trouble? Even when, as you pointed out, that the suspect was much bigger. Do you feel invincible because you have a gun or the law
on your side that you can overcome any situation? All good things for sure. My point was that if the officer had waited for backup things might have gone
very differently. To me there were other options. The cop could have rolled up his window, locked his doors and followed him, if he thought that he needed to do that.
If it happened that the kid got away how long do you think it would take before he was found and arrested? I think there is a really good chance that
if the kid walked away the police would find him and arrest him pretty quickly. Someone would be able to identify him IF you didn't already know who he was.

Before you jump on me, I'm not saying the cop was wrong. I'm well aware that when split second decisions have to be made, you don't have the time to think
about everything and the BEST decision is not always the one that is chosen. And I can't say that I would have done anything different if I were him.

In the end it doesn't really matter, as whats done is done.

Then again, maybe we can still learn from the past. IDK.

You understand of course, that officers are charged with protecting the public and enforcing the law. Letting the FELON run away, to potentially harm someone else, is not in the police handbook.

 

[RedBusarider]

You understand of course, that officers are charged with protecting the public and enforcing the law. Letting the FELON run away, to potentially harm someone else, is not in the police handbook.

So where were the police protecting the public (and their property) while they were setting fires?

I guess you missed the part where I said the cop could have followed him in his vehicle while waiting for backup?
IDK how long was it till the next cop showed up? 1 minute? 2?

Isn't it human nature that if someone punched you and tried to take your gun away from you and shoot you
that you MIGHT not have the greatest love for that person and therefore might not act in the same manor as if that never happened?

Run away? How fast do/can 300lb persons run? And for how far?

Don't get me wrong I see your point. Just not sure how far he would have gotten before backup came. That's all.

 

[GNBRETT]

So Cops run towards trouble? Even when, as you pointed out, that the suspect was much bigger. Do you feel invincible because you have a gun or the law
on your side that you can overcome any situation? All good things for sure. My point was that if the officer had waited for backup things might have gone
very differently. To me there were other options. The cop could have rolled up his window, locked his doors and followed him, if he thought that he needed to do that.
If it happened that the kid got away how long do you think it would take before he was found and arrested? I think there is a really good chance that
if the kid walked away the police would find him and arrest him pretty quickly. Someone would be able to identify him IF you didn't already know who he was.

yes cops run towards trouble. that is what the citizens who run the other way pay them to do. he just committed a felony and by law u are required to act. its not about feeling invincible its about doing ur job and confronting the suspect. ur expected to obey lawful commands. he had no reason to think this guy would do anything but. he has no prior history of this guy being a cop fighter.

roll the windows up? umm no! thats not what cops do. thats what citizens do. I can assure you it all happened within seconds. you, and the general public have months to digest what happened and what he shud or shudnt hav done. he on the other hand had seconds and I can tell u from experience things can go from orderly to violent in an instant!

 

[RedBusarider]

yes cops run towards trouble. that is what the citizens who run the other way pay them to do. he just committed a felony and by law u are required to act. its not about feeling invincible its about doing ur job and confronting the suspect. ur expected to obey lawful commands. he had no reason to think this guy would do anything but. he has no prior history of this guy being a cop fighter.

roll the windows up? umm no! thats not what cops do. thats what citizens do. I can assure you it all happened within seconds. you, and the general public have months to digest what happened and what he shud or shudnt hav done. he on the other hand had seconds and I can tell u from experience things can go from orderly to violent in an instant!

I agree with you for the most part.

The reason I stated roll up the windows was in case he did follow him in the vehicle and the suspect decided to turn on him again.
Then the suspect couldn't reach in and repeat the act he did earlier.
Yup us armchairing this event that happened over 3 months ago is basically useless EXCEPT if we (actually the police) learn something.
However since each situation is different it might be of little value.

AND if you looked at my posts from earlier you would see that I'm fully aware that split second decisions are not always the best ones,
but are usually the best ones under those circumstances given the amount of time to react.

Maybe the laws in your state are different - but I have never heard of a law that demands that a cop act under every single situation no matter what.
Or one that demands that you put yourself in danger at every opportunity no matter what. There are many situations that I could think of where you
might choose to wait or not act at all.



Now - the point of them (people in power?) choosing to announce it in the evening - that seems like a bad choice.
So why did they do that? Did they make a mistake?

Now to another issue. If there is a civil suit brought against the cop and police Dept and that turns out with a win for the police I think
the unrest we have seen recently will look like a firecracker going off in comparison to what will come next.

 

[skydivr]

I do like how the asian store owners out in LA armed themselves with shot guns and posted signs saying "looters will be shot". I'm really surprised I didn't see this knowing these animals were gonna loot if the verdict was for the cop.

I'm pretty sure they stood on top of the roof and had others down below. but them are shot guns and a FAR better form of defense against a home or business and in my 19 yrs in LE shot guns make up maybe 1% of the street robberies, store robberies, cops shot, drive-bye's, home invasions, burglaries etc.... the other 99% come from hand guns.

A shotgun would not have been the most effective weapon, as the spray might also hit others who are not part of the problem. Besides, I'm not sure that I'd let any self-styled government 'expert' TELL ME which firearm was the "best" for any given situation....the fact is, the best recent example for the need of the 2nd amendment is FERGUSON MO...

 

[skydivr]

So where were the police protecting the public (and their property) while they were setting fires?

I guess you missed the part where I said the cop could have followed him in his vehicle while waiting for backup?
IDK how long was it till the next cop showed up? 1 minute? 2?

Isn't it human nature that if someone punched you and tried to take your gun away from you and shoot you
that you MIGHT not have the greatest love for that person and therefore might not act in the same manor as if that never happened?

Run away? How fast do/can 300lb persons run? And for how far?

Don't get me wrong I see your point. Just not sure how far he would have gotten before backup came. That's all.

I'd kinda like to know why the police are allowing these people to burn up (their own) neighborhood too. And why they let protestors block the interstate in Nashville last night also...

I get what you are trying to say...however, that's NOT what happened and it's NOT how it went down. You can armchair quarterback all day, but you wern't there and what DID happen was entirely within the law for the officer to have done. Period. Case closed.