<0 wt Oil

deon_hackstall

Registered
Just wondering if any of you guys are using the less than 0 wt oil in your bikes and how is it working for you.. I hear its worth from 1 to 3 hp just by pouring it in.. I have never used anything but 10w40 but open to trying this. ???
 
I was under the impression that a lower weight oil does increase HP (incrementally), but is recommended for racing only. I use the weight recommended by the manufacturer, and I have never taken her to the track.

I am clearly outside of my bounds on this, but I would think that making changes elsewhere to achieve what you're going for would be safer for the engine. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
you shouldnt be using 0 in our motors. Follow the recommended.
 
I guess if I'm going to try to gain HP advances, I wouldn't do it by starving the engine. I'd rather put $2,000 into mods rather than $2,000+ into a new engine after it's toasted.

It's kinda like those cold-air intakes for cars. Minimal (if any) HP gains, and particles potentially shred the engine from the inside out due to lack of any real filtration.

Maybe we are looking at a "how to get to 200+HP with bolt-ons" post (there's one out there that was intriguing to me), and one of those ways was to reduce the oil weight. Very short-term gain, long-term problem.
 
Car companies use thinner oils to increase fleet fuel economy. If you care about your motor, you should use what is appropriate for your region. On an individual basis, the thinner oil doesn't do jack for your mileage, so I use what is best for the vehicle.

If you want to gain power from running thinner oil, you might as well get on a diet. It'll be healthier for you and you'll get more gains from it in performance.
 
It depends on how honest the oil company is and how expensive the additive package they use is. Then follows what you pay for the oil.

Provided the particles that pass through your air filter are not big enough to break through the oil film, the film should hold up and there should be almost zero wear.

So it follows that most of your wear comes from a cold start and the time it takes for the oil to reach all the lubricating areas in your motor. A thinner oil will get there faster, meaning less wear.

In general, it is accepted that a thicker oil, more viscosity will provide a better film, but in specific cases this may not be true.

Without any additives, whatsoever, a high quality synthetic base can have up to seven times the film strength of its mineral oil equivalent. But then they add additives which changes the whole package.

A dyno oil for example can have a film strength of 500 to 900psi, where a synthetic can range between 2000 to 4000 psi.

High performance motorcycle engines are high RPM, where flow is probably more important than viscosity.

All the oils that most folks here use, will have more than adequate film strengths, the first place you would see the problem where the oil film breaks down, is on your cam shaft lobes after several thousands of miles.

I play with oil in my Busa purely as a hobby and send a sample for analysis after each oil change. I am now using the second brand of 5W40 synthetic, which is way more expensive than anyone will ever need, but just doing it for fun. The previous one was a synthetic from ENI, the MotoGP sponsor and the viscosity polymer started breaking down pretty fast, so we will see how this one does when I have it tested.

My Prius (Yeah I have one, but I don't own a moped:whistle:) runs on Toyota 0W20, it has done 120,000 miles so far and I have never even opened the hood. They say these go for about 350,000 miles on the same motor and battery, but then there are transmission failures.
 
That's the type of info I was looking for.. As far as what the motorcycle company recommends,,,, when do we ever follow that to the letter.???? I don't follow their break in procedure, I mess with my ecu, I cut a notch in the side stand stop, we all put on aftermarket pipes or slip-ons, we lower the bikes, we run wider, narrower, under inflated, over inflated tires. Hell we put piggy back fueling system on to negate what the factory programs.
So as far as what's in the manual; I don't put too much stock in it. I work in manufacturing,, I have written manuals and most of it has to do with mitigating warranty work or avoiding lawsuits. I was just wanting to know if you guys (mostly street riding busa owners) run this oil.. I know that the drag racing crowd has been using it for years,,, but that is 1/4 mile at a time,, not sitting in traffic on a 98 degree NC day, or up in the mountains on a 20 degree day.
Thanks for the replies though, I welcome any and all . And if by chance someone reads this that has tried it on the street,, I would still like to hear your thoughts..


It depends on how honest the oil company is and how expensive the additive package they use is. Then follows what you pay for the oil.

Provided the particles that pass through your air filter are not big enough to break through the oil film, the film should hold up and there should be almost zero wear.

So it follows that most of your wear comes from a cold start and the time it takes for the oil to reach all the lubricating areas in your motor. A thinner oil will get there faster, meaning less wear.

In general, it is accepted that a thicker oil, more viscosity will provide a better film, but in specific cases this may not be true.

Without any additives, whatsoever, a high quality synthetic base can have up to seven times the film strength of its mineral oil equivalent. But then they add additives which changes the whole package.

A dyno oil for example can have a film strength of 500 to 900psi, where a synthetic can range between 2000 to 4000 psi.

High performance motorcycle engines are high RPM, where flow is probably more important than viscosity.

All the oils that most folks here use, will have more than adequate film strengths, the first place you would see the problem where the oil film breaks down, is on your cam shaft lobes after several thousands of miles.

I play with oil in my Busa purely as a hobby and send a sample for analysis after each oil change. I am now using the second brand of 5W40 synthetic, which is way more expensive than anyone will ever need, but just doing it for fun. The previous one was a synthetic from ENI, the MotoGP sponsor and the viscosity polymer started breaking down pretty fast, so we will see how this one does when I have it tested.

My Prius (Yeah I have one, but I don't own a moped:whistle:) runs on Toyota 0W20, it has done 120,000 miles so far and I have never even opened the hood. They say these go for about 350,000 miles on the same motor and battery, but then there are transmission failures.
 
Car companies use thinner oils to increase fleet fuel economy. If you care about your motor, you should use what is appropriate for your region. On an individual basis, the thinner oil doesn't do jack for your mileage, so I use what is best for the vehicle.

If you want to gain power from running thinner oil, you might as well get on a diet. It'll be healthier for you and you'll get more gains from it in performance.


True, and they are being designed with this type of oil in mind, and that is the key.

If anything just run a full synthetic oil in 10w40 and call it good.

-D
 
Yeah I believe it's 4 racing purposes meaning after the race the bike is tore down fluids changed etc. Could be wrong but I don't think it's intended 4 daily commute and changed every 3-5k miles
 
I'm thinking track purposes where every once of power is critical to winning and the motors are gone through often. It's yours , have fun
 
I use <0 on the track probably about 500 LSR miles on the motor and when I did the valve adjust the top end looked like new but....I have about 3000 miles total on the rebuilt motor and for riding on the street it is 20w-50. When you are dealing with lower RPMs, lug conditions, idling, and more heat IMO the <0 oil won't be your friend. Besides that it is stupid ass expensive!
 
Seems like you could run it at the track and switch to something heavier for street use. I am curious how the lower weights will effect the transmission and clutch. Remember everything is sharing the same oil in a bike. I use Mobil 1 10W-40 year round. The bike seems to like it and the clutch and shifting feels like new after 5 years of riding, so I'm staying with that.
 
IMHO, once a motor has done some miles on a thicker oil, like a 20W50, it is best to stick with that and not go back to lower viscosity.

If you want to run a low viscosity oil and benefit from its advantages, start there and stay there.
 
Just Found this on another forum... This is a response to pretty much the same question I asked above.. Looks like it came form someone in the Brock organization.

Post Re: Oil Qustion...

We run the Alisyn Less than 0W in all of our stock motor bikes and have experienced zero issues. Brock did quite a bit of riding during Bike Week this year on Christine (BMW) & Yakuza (ZX-14). We recommend the 0-20w if you live in extremely hot climates and do a lot of street riding... And recommend our heavier weight oils for power adders/built motor applications.
 
Just Found this on another forum... This is a response to pretty much the same question I asked above.. Looks like it came form someone in the Brock organization.

Post Re: Oil Qustion...

We run the Alisyn Less than 0W in all of our stock motor bikes and have experienced zero issues. Brock did quite a bit of riding during Bike Week this year on Christine (BMW) & Yakuza (ZX-14). We recommend the 0-20w if you live in extremely hot climates and do a lot of street riding... And recommend our heavier weight oils for power adders/built motor applications.

On a water cooled motor, where the thermostat decides what temperature the motor runs at and the cooling design is sufficient to not run into over temperature, I don't know why folks bother about hot climates?

I can understand how low viscosity helps in really cold climates at start up and get the oil where it is needed fast. But once the motor is up to temperature, there is no difference.

BTW, Silkolene also advertises that their 5W40 gives about 3% more power and they used a Honda Blackbird with available test data.

The one important thing that we need to remember in the Busa, is that the gearbox uses the same oil as the motor. A gearbox breaks down viscosity polymers pretty fast and we will only know if a very thin oil works good after about 50,000 miles. Personally, I would be a bit skeptical running a 0W in a gearbox, without good empirical test data.
 
IMHO, once a motor has done some miles on a thicker oil, like a 20W50, it is best to stick with that and not go back to lower viscosity.

If you want to run a low viscosity oil and benefit from its advantages, start there and stay there.
No engineer or even a mechanic but that's what I have always been told as well.
 
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