A question of patriotism...

[Projekt]

Why is it that people who refused the draft are called unpatriotic?

The term "draft-dodger" carries a negative connotation. Why would it be negative to protest the mission of a given war by refusing induction? You have two extremes when looking at Pres Clinton and GWB. One due to political dissent and one due to wealth and priviledge of influence.

Draftees are taken from a group of less priviledged as a consequence of their environment. You could opt out by getting an educational deferral and that means you have some kind of higher wealth than compared to the average.

Your thoughts?

 

[Takeuon]

Sorry for my ignorance, probably related to my age and the time of the draft . But I don't even know how the draft was conducted. Wasn't it like some kind of random lottery pick or something? How else could it be made "fair" ???

 

[Takeuon]

I also was under the impression that if you were indeed "drafted" , and chose not to go...you would be put in jail. Hence the term "draft dodger"

 

[Projekt]

Jail was a potential consequence of refusing induction. It nearly happened to Cassius Clay.. Everyone else fled to Canada or elsewhere.

 

[F=MA]

It's too early in the morning for this at present...but maybe later.

 

[Bosshound]

If the DRAFT Called me when I was Younger then I would think it was God's Will............

We All are GOING to DIE Someday

It's the In-Between that we Need to Worry About

 

[Projekt]

If the DRAFT Called me when I was Younger then I would think it was God's Will............

We All are GOING to DIE Someday

It's the In-Between that we Need to Worry About

Is it god's will to have a group of (rich) politicians decide to fight a war that didn't threaten US soil or persons by drafting a bunch of young men with seemingly nothing better to do? You call that god's will?

I call that the will of industrial special interests looking to making ton's of money at the expense of a lot of dead 18 and 19 year old men. Looks more like Warmonger's will to me.

 

[UncleSteve]

there is no draft, so why bother starting a thread about it ?

 

[Takeuon]

Is it god's will to have a group of (rich) politicians decide to fight a war that didn't threaten US soil or persons by drafting a bunch of young men with seemingly nothing better to do? You call that god's will?

I call that the will of industrial special interests looking to making ton's of money at the expense of a lot of dead 18 and 19 year old men. Looks more like Warmonger's will to me.

While I agree w/ this.....

This thread was started with the sole purpose of causing trouble between members.

I also agree w/ this

This could get ugly pretty quick. Jast sayin'.......

 

[Projekt]

there is no draft, so why bother starting a thread about it ?

Because people (mostly politicians) are still called draft-dodgers and it has an lingering effect on their careers. Besides, the current draft is simply called Stop-Loss and reactivation during the initial 8 year commitment.

 

[Vonderbach]

There are certain dues required to be a member of this country. Taxes, conscription in a time of war and allegiance to the flag (i.e. the country.) If you are a conscientious objector, then you can serve in non-combat roles which facilitate the military without actually taking part in the action itself. By paying taxes you are already assisting in war efforts, you just don't think about it.

Bottom line, if you do not wish to serve your country, you are free to leave by renouncing your citizenship. The United States will gladly accept your resignation. Citizenship is completely optional.

This thread can remain civil if we allow it to.

 

[SFC RICK]

No need to ponder ******* who have no goodwill toward their fellow countrymen/women. Sure it's a tough call to be drafted, I myself enlisted in the Marines at the end of Vietnam, cause I knew my number was next and I wanted to do my part after High School graduation. Did I see the carnage played out on the networks everynight? Yes! Did I see the people who ran and didn't have the nerve to fight? Yes!

However after having served over 26 years since then, I see where the less valiant can contribute in positions other than combat. We still need cooks, laundry and bath people, medical, thousands more positions that people can elect to provide....IF they joined in the struggle for Freedom.

Personally, I'm not so PC correct when I've got a job to do.

Industrial complex? Political hacks? There hasn't ever been a time in Human history where that hasn't ever been present. No one is special in the world and every life is in danger of being ended if others get their ways.

But after all is considered, drafting is just a means of trying to get men to do what they otherwise aren't able to do on their own. Some men eventually become the warriors that a society needs for self perservation, while some men cower in fear. Yes you'll hear all sorts of "blather, spewing of excuses, and general justification of why they think they are too good to be warriors in the fight for Freedom and Liberty. "Oh it's their war, not mine" "It's the Industrial complex" "I'm a peaceful loving candlestick maker" yada yada yada.

There are too many people today who volunteer to Fight for Freedom and Liberty and the draft dodgers need not to be concerned. Even during war, more youngpeople feel the desire to do their part today than those who don't.

 

[gurrera]

If your neighbor was getting beat up and you didn't want to help, I guess you have the right to look the other way, But if you were the one getting beat up, you would like some to help.

Also if the bad guys took over the rest of the wold, and we where the only one left,that would be something to think about.

The draft was the only far way to pick names.

I was drafted in 1968 and I didn't like it, but I went over to Vietnam for a year.

 

[SFC RICK]

If your neighbor was getting beat up and you didn't want to help, I guess you have the right to look the other way, But if you were the one getting beat up, you would like some to help.

Also if the bad guys took over the rest of the wold, and we where the only one left,that would be something to think about.

The draft was the only far way to pick names.

I was drafted in 1968 and I didn't like it, but I went over to Vietnam for a year.

Thank you for your Service! Of course I did serve with a lot of Draftees!

Once the uniform was put on and the boots hit the ground...everyone was the same! We all were in it to survive!

Oh the question on how I knew? I registered for the draft right after I enlisted, received the letter and draft card...then promptly left for Parris Island for Boot Camp, and enjoyed 13 weeks of vacation at a resort like hotel. They awoke me every morning and had breakfast waiting me, had bedside laundry service, even had a guy who walked around the bedrooms checking everything for safety all through the night!

 

[dragonbusa]

draft dodgers dont diserve to breath the same air as us vets

 

[twotonevert]

Not wanting to over moderate or "censor", please keep this civil. Not sure why this was posted as it will only lead to negative discussion. It will remain in an attempt to self moderate at the moment.....

 

[Projekt]

Bottom line, if you do not wish to serve your country, you are free to leave by renouncing your citizenship.

Or.... You can just have your wealthy parents pay for college so you can get that deferment..

 

[Vonderbach]

draft dodgers dont diserve to breath the same air as us vets

That wasn't necessary.

Or.... You can just have your wealthy parents pay for college so you can get that deferment..

I don't really think it's wise to get into that debate since it's really not going to lead anywhere productive. Yes, I suppose you're right, but then again you can also dodge the draft by being a full time college student. There are exceptions to the rule to be sure, but if you can't work the system, then you have that option I mentioned.

 

[Projekt]

draft dodgers dont diserve to breath the same air as us vets

How's that?

 

[Dino]

There are certain dues required to be a member of this country. Taxes, conscription in a time of war and allegiance to the flag (i.e. the country.) If you are a conscientious objector, then you can serve in non-combat roles which facilitate the military without actually taking part in the action itself. By paying taxes you are already assisting in war efforts, you just don't think about it.

Bottom line, if you do not wish to serve your country, you are free to leave by renouncing your citizenship. The United States will gladly accept your resignation. Citizenship is completely optional.

This thread can remain civil if we allow it to.

This post raised the question in my mind about whether or not being conscripted was one of those "dues" required to be a citizen. I did not have an opinion one way or another but I will admit that I was leaning toward thinking it was not. However upon a little surfing around I found this:

Several questions concerning the draft arise each time the United States is threatened with military action, or the United States threatens military action. The first, and most basic, is: "Is the draft constitutional?" The plain answer to this, noted in the introductory paragraph, is that it is. Conscription is clearly anticipated by the Constitution. The Constitution did impose one small but key restriction on a conscripted army - any allocation of funds to support the army can only have a life of two years. Any allocation thereafter must be reauthorized by Congress. Since the House of Representatives is elected every two years, this is a safeguard against runaway armies. If the people are not satisfied with the way a draft is being run, they can elect a House that will not authorize further funding.

Constitutional Topic: The Draft - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

I agree with this paragraph and Vonderbach that it is indeed one of those things that goes along with being an American.

I diagree with a person being able to "work the system" to legally avoid being drafted.

I think this is a good topic for thought and we should not be afraid to discuss items of interest.