Anyone hear of water injection on non blown motor

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Anyone ever use water-methanol injection on a busa that is NOT running boost.

I have read that you can gain up to 10% more HP on a normally asperated motor with water. This would be about a 18 HP gain on our busa powered bonneville car.

Take into consideration that it is hotter then hell on the salt and am looking for any way to get a few more HP without breaking the rules.


Thanks for any insight.


-JH

 

[06BUSA]

Dunno. But I am interested?

 

[Commuta_Busa]

the water is only used to try and raise the point before detonation. If you had a very high CR and a ton of peak pressure that no race gas could prevent detonation than you may want to look at water injection. It's a very small amount to help prevent bad things from happening but it does kill power it's a trade off at the top end... If you're trying to keep temps down it may be another approach. I'm not sure if the rules will allow a water/meth blend becuase they may view that as unapproved fuel. I don't know for sure though. Some turbo guys use water with their turbo but only to spray down the intercooler and try and soak up som of the heat. Since it's not going into the engine for anything it's not effected by any fueling class rules.


Have you thought about fuel cooling already?

 

[marlboroman71818]

Water would raise the compression ratio beings that it is not combustable.

 

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Water could be used in gas class.....water-methanol could be used in fuel (running both classes).


The logic behind a power increase is that the water will cool the intake charge and slow the burn to prevent detonation.....this will allow for more timing on the motor and should make more HP even on a normally aspirated motor.
I have looked into a few manufactures of water injection systems and they all say the same thing. I dont know if they are full of it because I have never heard of anyone using water on anything other than a blown motor.

(taken from Snow Performance)

http://www.snowperformance.net/faqs_type.php?type=gasoline



2. Can the Boost Cooler be applied to naturally aspirated and nitrous engines?
1.Naturally aspirated/high compression engines:

In this application, water/methanol injection allows the use of pump fuel in all but the most extreme situations which effects tremendous cost savings as well as horsepower increases due to air density increase and realized timing potential. The system is activated by a boost referenced switch so that injection takes place only during high engine loads when needed.

(I dont know if this is BS but it sounds like it might work.)


I have not seen any info on if fuel cooling has much affect on an injected motor. I know it is a long standing trick for making more HP but for some reason I think one reason it works is because the chilled fuel when atomized in a carb cools the air charge. In an injected motor I dont think it would make much if any difference.

I could be very wrong about this.


Thanks for any insights.

-JH

 

[Commuta_Busa]

well, since you're not limited by the rules you may have a shot at this. Again though I would say to only venture this route if your race gas can't handle the pressure and ignition setting. You're walkin on a jagged edge. Note that they even reference "use of pump gas" and cost savings associated with that. Your looking for max power.

Yes, by getting some water inside the combustion chamber it will allow higher pressure and more spark before things go bad. It's just tough to really find the balance point. To much water and no mater how much ign advance you have it's gonna be down on power. Also at the top of your revs you may notice that there's alot of inconsistancies going on.... wavering fuel psi, voltage, a/f ratio. Nothing major but they're not in a steady state through the revs. It makes things difficult to get that water mixture just right for the best power. The N/A engines are trying to benefit with the water differently than the turbo guys. They have it a bit easier bacause they're using the water to reduce inlet temps which as a result will raise the pre-ign point. Same result but different use.

On a different note.... my fuel system isn't a dead head system so all the fuel that circulates through the fuel system and is not used circulates back to the fuel tank. The fuel soaks up alot of heat. You can feel it in your thighs as they're pressed against the fuel tank. I added some small sealed gel/ice packs and it did help reduce my fuel temps. Anything you can do to reduce the temps of whatever is going into the chamber is gonna help ya' out. I always try and keep a safe margin away from pre-ign... I would rather have my engine last a while and be down 5-10hp than to push things to the edge.


Personaly I would stick with a very high octane race gas that isn't oxygenated and tune my cam timming, ign timming, and A/F ratio to work it's best at a decent air density.