Anyone running Dry sump with Pressure Stage?

[uaeproz]

**Posted this thread in other forums, hunting down the ones who attempted or successfully made it happen**

Hi all,

So Pressure Stage.... Did anyone try this? If I'll go the dry sump route, I would add pressure stage cause it doesn't make sense to me otherwise. I received few responses from NRL and others saying I don't need it. While I respect those responses, I just need to know if anyone out there actually tried it?

Dailey built dry sump with pressure stage for Hayabusa but can anyone share the feedback? I need some feedback cause I'm running uphill races (50 degree slope) up to 10 seconds per pass at WOT full load with paddle tires on a Turbo'ed (close to 30 psi) hayabusa powered sandrail so positive oil pressure all the way to a point where I have to empty the catch can I have on the crankcase breather on every pass otherwise, I would overflow.

I checked the manual but I'm not sure if this is correct. If I remove the oil pump, How the scavenge pump shaft would rotate. It looks like the scavenge pump shaft which replaces the water pump shaft is driven by the oil pump shaft? So how this is going to work? Please have a look at the attached page from the manual.

Thanks,

Abdulla

 

[uaeproz]

What is the best option from the following options (or if you have an alternative, please share your opinion)?

 

[Mr Brown]

Explain what you mean by a pressure stage. I read where you're racing uphill, but that doesn't explain it.

 

[uaeproz]

Explain what you mean by a pressure stage. I read where you're racing uphill, but that doesn't explain it.

There are mainly 2 types of scavenge pumps for dry sump setups, a pump with scavenge (that sucks oil from the pan), you could have several ports from the pan the scavenge sections or stages (each port goes to a "section or stage" in the scavenge pump) and the pulled oil from the Pan goes through the scavenge sections goes to an external oil tank. Most of the pumps (for cars at least) have a pressure section that have an oil inlet coming from the tank and then pressurize the oil into the engine oil inlet. This is the 1st type.

2nd type, scavenge pump without pressure section. That rely on gravity to push oil into the engine and then internal engine oil pump pressurize the oil.

I hope I explained the pressure stage.

Now that said, most of the kits for Hayabusa does not come with pressure stage (2nd type). Only few built scavenge pumps with pressure stage. I'm not in favor of using 2nd type because of several reasons. So right now hopefully will be getting a kit with pressure stage from Dailey Engineering.

 

[Mr Brown]

I understand what you're saying. Why do you think you need it?

 

[uaeproz]

I understand what you're saying. Why do you think you need it?

Because I'm not riding on flat ground. The breather is venting fumes (all the times) which indicate high cavitation in other words, pick up line is not consistently picking up oil. This is observed on all other sandrails with hayabusa motor.

 

[Mr Brown]

Because I'm not riding on flat ground. The breather is venting fumes (all the times) which indicate high cavitation in other words, pick up line is not consistently picking up oil. This is observed on all other sandrails with hayabusa motor.

Understood, what I'm getting at is how do others solve this issue? Seb at NLR is unquestionably the leader in development of high end parts for these motors in many different applications, I'm wondering why you think he doesn't know what he's talking about when he says you don't need a pressure stage.
Are the g-forces the oil of your rail sees similar to what a Prostreet or grudge bike sees?
Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your reasoning.

 

[uaeproz]

Understood, what I'm getting at is how do others solve this issue? Seb at NLR is unquestionably the leader in development of high end parts for these motors in many different applications, I'm wondering why you think he doesn't know what he's talking about when he says you don't need a pressure stage.
Are the g-forces the oil of your rail sees similar to what a Prostreet or grudge bike sees?
Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your reasoning.

I'm not sure if Seb from NRL was the one who replied to my questions or was it someone else who was working there.

The G forces is different than street drag bikes. For example, we have side force when duning hills horizontally (Wide Open Throttle), uphill, downhill, jumps, landing, etc. so I don't think we have same G force. G force in the sand is all over the places.

Look at the videos below, any of those sand cars if not equipped with dry-sump, it will be it's last pass. These cars are my benchmark not street drag bikes when it comes to oiling setups. At the end of the day, engine tech may vary a little but the principles remains the same.

LIWA SAND DRAGS

SAND DUNING

 

[Mr Brown]

I understand (I'm saying that a lot lol) what your concerns about using a wet sump are, it makes sense. Given that other rails are running strong without pressure, I'm not seeing how a pressure stage is necessary, seems like a solution for a nonexistent problem.
That being said, my opinion doesn't make any difference to you, you've found what you were looking for. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

 

[uaeproz]

I understand (I'm saying that a lot lol) what your concerns about using a wet sump are, it makes sense. Given that other rails are running strong without pressure, I'm not seeing how a pressure stage is necessary, seems like a solution for a nonexistent problem.
That being said, my opinion doesn't make any difference to you, you've found what you were looking for. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

There are many sandrails (modded ones) are having dry sump. One few ones and those having big wet sump pans. Hayabusa sandrails are very few. Myself, I've seen 4 only in total and not 3 of them turbo'ed but not running 30 psi of boost like mine.

I've noticed a lot of fumes equals to pickup sucking air from the pan aka cavitation. What would be the downside of adding dry sump in my case? I don't see any problem except for cost. On the other hand, the upside is that I would have proper oiling system ensuring reliability and peace of mind.

 

[uaeproz]

I understand (I'm saying that a lot lol) what your concerns about using a wet sump are, it makes sense. Given that other rails are running strong without pressure, I'm not seeing how a pressure stage is necessary, seems like a solution for a nonexistent problem.
That being said, my opinion doesn't make any difference to you, you've found what you were looking for. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Did you have any suggestion on the options I'm proposing for dry-sump oil flow?

 

[Mr Brown]

Did you have any suggestion on the options I'm proposing for dry-sump oil flow?

Other than suggesting that perhaps you don't need a pressure stage, no.