Base Map Quality

haya4life

Registered
Please explain how companies like Brock can come up with a base map that is just about perfect for all 08-09 Busa's? I thought that each bike differs (even with the exact performance parts installed) and a custom tune that works on the same bikes will yield different HP. What's the point of a custom tune at that point?

Did Brock do a base map based on a large population of the same bike, for example, tuning 100 08-09 Busa's and find the average curves?
 
If you load Brock's map into your bike, how do you know it's perfect? :dunno:
 
With today's quality control I can see how it will be close. Yes, every bike will be different.

IMO if you ride to lunch everyday and hit the corners every weekend or so or take it down the 1/4 once a month or so the Brock's or dynojet map provided is adequate.

Now if you have $300 burning a hole in your pocket or you actually race the bike or have some goal set in life for your bike then by all means go get a tune but make sure it's a very reputable tuner so that you actually benefit from the tune. No doubt you'll make more power; maybe :laugh:
 
Oh, and if you're the latter come off the money and get the ECU flashed or a Bazzaz, etc. that will allow tuning at a much higher level.
 
Is it a fact that "ECU flashed or a Bazzaz" will allow tuning at a much higher level? If that's the case why doesn't Brock use it with their CT series. Wouldn't that make sense since that is their flagship product and should yield even higher results?
 
Brock does offer Bazzaz maps... :thumbsup:

ECU tuning is still pretty new and "technically" still in a test phase for the Gen-II bike. Even then a ECU flash is a lot different with many more variables than a bolt on PC/Bazzaz setup.

I'm sure Brock will be here shortly to answer any other questions you may have... :beerchug:
 
The difference as I know it between the PC and ECU/Bazzaz, etc. Is 4 injectors vs. 8 injectors being contolled. I recently asked one of our expert tuners about it and for a daily rider it's not important, but to be very competive in racing you need to control all 8 to squezz out every advantage you can.
 
The Brock solution (pipe & PC with map) is a simple cost effective bolt on solution that works well for most people. The PCIII and PCV is completely fine unless you are running turbo or big nitrous. Controlling all 8 injectors is unecessary and give no performance advantage unless your motor makes over 225 HP. As Got-Busa said, the ECU flashing is a bit more involved for the do-it your selfer, and less supported out there in the tuning community, but there are added advantages such as speed limiter removal and rev limit changes.

The Brock map as supplied is a good drivable map, but keep in mind, if you live in Texas in July or Colorado in September, No fuel injection system does a great job compensating for differences in altitude, temperature, or weather. FI is much better than carbs, but you still can get a big benefit for tuning for your location and season.
 
Well said Draco1340 :beerchug:

Without getting into a lengthy discussion or Internet debate, I'll try to give you the condensed version…. but it's still long :oh::

For many years we have been trained to believe that every motorcycle which rolls off the assembly-line is “differentâ€. And, of course, this is true given specific machining tolerances, stack-up, etc… What most don't realize is that the today’s technology allows for much more precise construction than in the past. I can use our AMA Dragbike SuperSport race program as a perfect example as we have won every national championship that we have sought since 2005. Much the same as AMA Superstock, our rules dictate that nearly every part in the engine must remain stock. Can you imagine that the measured assembled deck height (piston to head clearance) of every single GSX-R1000 engine that we have measured from the factory has varied (for its model year) by less than .0015 since 2001?! It's true. In the mid-1990's you couldn't confuse cam caps between one head and another because there was no way that the cams would even turn in the engine if you did. These days, if one cap is damaged, 99% of the time you can install one from an old junk head and go about your business. We have even heard of guys mixing and matching top and bottom engine cases?! The manufacturing capabilities and quality control of today's big 4 Japanese factories are nothing short of astounding. I am speaking of engines and consistent power output, but the other control systems are equally impressive and precise.

Ask yourself some common sense questions: Every Hayabusa (or any other make/model) rolls out of the factory in Japan destined for SOME location in the world, correct? If a customer purchases his new bike in South Florida and decides to make his first road trip to Denver, does his bike run okay? DOES IT NEED TO BE REMAPPED? Of course not. Sensors on the bike allow it to make the appropriate changes to run correctly regardless of the heat, humidity, altitude, etc… Is it 100% PERFECT by today's standards? NO… but it’s just fine for damn near every general motorcycling enthusiast and getting better by the year.

Enter the racer/perfectionist/tuner with a $60,000 dyno room with every imaginable measuring gadget. Can he use today’s dyno technology to measure the existing factory base map and make changes to a completely stock machine in 250 RPM increments to make the bike smoother and accelerate harder? YES… but we are really splitting hairs and most asses would have a hard time telling the difference. A drag strip will tell you that you just picked up 1/10 of a second, but anyone who says they can feel that type of performance gain is out of their mind since it’s about half a bike length after accelerating to speeds approaching 150 mph; however, general drivability improvements can definitely be noticed when properly mapped.

So what happens when a performance exhaust system is added? The previous known good base map in the ECU no longer matches the stock exhaust, much less the air fuel ratio required for optimum performance. This can be corrected using the same equipment, which simply intercepts the signals from the stock ECU and conditions them appropriately before they reach the injectors. Did the engine change? No. Did anything else change from stock? No. We simply replaced previous bent metal tubes with new bent metal tubes which do not all of the flow clogging emissions equipment required by the EPA.

Why is it so difficult for people to believe that a properly engineered map can't be switched between bikes? We didn't change anything in the engine or OEM control systems. We simply adjusted/matched what was already present to match OUR exhaust system using a simple signal conditioner (Power Commander, Bazzaz unit, etc…).

This should blow some of you away: Did you realize that your motorcycle has NO IDEA that a Power Commander or Bazzaz unit is even installed?!

There's really is no magic. We approach all mapping combinations from an engineering standpoint and use known good performance data to develop the best map possible. Could someone else develop a better map? We don't really think so. If we all have a true A/F ratio of XXX to one, there's no perfecting it. But, a good tuner knows the difference between real-world results and a target air fuel ratio on the dyno or using a bike mounted Lambda sensor. Over the years I have compiled many e-mails and comments from Brocks Performance customers stating that they spent $200-$400 because their friend, or someone else, convinced them that their bike needed to be custom tuned... only to go SLOWER at the drag strip compared to our mapping?! These same people simply reinstall the map which came with their Brock’s Performance system in the first place, and their performance numbers returned.

It sometimes confuses customers when I tell them that our TRACK map, which has been modified for use with the bike moving (which begins life as a dyno map before being adjusted using measurement data from a Bosch five wire sensor), will typically read LOWER power numbers on the dyno compared to a map which has an air fuel ratio perfected for maximum performance on the dyno (with the bike sitting still). Truth be told, as good as they are, the fuel injection systems on today's bikes are still rather primitive compared to cars, and it's not uncommon for the bike to overcompensate or under-compensate while moving. This is what we correct with our TRACK mapping. I can tell you from experience that the optimum performance air fuel ratio between engines is definitely not the same. Whether you have a Hayabusa, GSX-R1000 or ZX-14, the optimum air fuel ratio will be different between the three to achieve record-setting results. This depends upon the racing venue, the differences between quarter mile performances, and/or the differences of a standing start mile at Maxton or Texas or Bonneville etc. All of these observances assume a normally aspirated stock engine; supercharged and nitrous oxide applications get even more confusing!

Best of luck finding a local bike shop dyno operator who knows these differences. :oldcool:

I hope this helps.

Brock
Brock's Performance Products
 
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