Busa Bearings 101 Zook OEM vs not

[rubbersidedown]

Got a PM asking about bearings. I'll post here for anyone interested.
Member wanted to buy OEM Busa wheel bearings. Needed them ASAP going on trip soon.
None on the shelf at Suzuki dealer.
No worries. Hit any place that sells bearings. Industrial supple house,etc. Whoa Rubb,dont I need OEM for my Busa? Yes and no.When you take out a "Suzuki" bearing,(or any bearing,Ford,Chevy,John Deer,etc) read the lip. Its made by somebody. Get 3 measurements. OD,ID and thickness.(some "parts dudes" don't like to get out their own micrometer,if they even have one) Take this info to the dude at the supply house. He'll come back in a minute and throw down on the counter yer much needed Suzuki OEM bearings. They are Toyo or Timken or whatever for your application.They might even be in the same box as the "OEM". Cool.They are in stock. More cool. Zook OEM $49.95 bearing house...12 bucks. Awesome right. More cool. What you took out of your project might have a bearing that is sealed one side,2 sides or not at all. Get the quality 2 sided. Less dirt gets in the bearing shortening its life span.
Now you've got yer new bearings and they are ready to go in. Not so fast. NEVER trust anybody's bearing to be ready to go. Yup,paranoid Rubb at it again.Whatever. Take yer new bearing,CAREFULLY remove both seals (I use my trusty tool box scapel) Look inside,see that low budget grease used in mass production...you want it gone. Clean with varsol or whatever. Dry the bearing. However tempting,do not use your compressed air on it,spinning it (dry) making that cool whirring noise. Blow it from the sides. Cool,out with old,in with the new. Won't get into what brand is best,do yer own research,1000 opinions. I like a brand thats MC specific and that has a anti grease monkey inner lid. Take off outer lid,inside a second lid with a hole in the middle.As you press down you get fresh contaminate free grease. Take said grease and force it into the bearing. DIY tricks can be used. Yer tool box syringe for instance. Anyway,force the grease in there with fingers or whatever. This will take time. I like to only go from 1 side at first,depending on bearing type you will see grease eventually come out the other side.(not applicable to all bearings). Grease in,satisfied,re-install seals. GTG.
Bearing removal and re-install. Proper pullers and hydrolic press prefered,but can be done without. Some DIY'ers dont have fancy equipment. Fancy puller=brass punch+hammer. Fancy press=old socket+hammer.
Removal...go slow. Treat the bearing like head bolts. Cross hatch pattern. Tap tap tap on one side,move to the other. Use your "jazz hands" very light taps,constantly changing location. This will take time. They will come out eventually. Sure,get bike shop to re/re.
Install...again,use your inner feminine touch. Grab a socket with the same diameter as the bearing.Place bearing in the hole. Tap ever so lightly to get it started. If it goes cok-eyed,yer doing it wrong. Sometimes its better to just tap around the edge,again,one side to the other,to get it started. Plastic mallet preferred,but not critical.Once you feel its started in straight,place yer socket on top and send 'er home. How far in? Till you feel it stop. It will feel different when striking and also the sound of your strikes will/may change.
Bearing on right,sealed both sides.

Grease...not all are created equal..buy good quality,NOT all purpose...like this...LOL. I like the toxic kind as opposed to the ones the "Flower Power" crowd uses.

Scapel. Very handy,multiple uses. I use this type.Change out many styles of blades and when they get dull...like me.
Also handy for when the job goes to shi7. You can use the thing to slit yer wrists.

Hopefully that helps you out. Stand by for flames and opinions...all are welcome,it's how we learn.
Rubb.

 

[fallenarch]

So you're saying if the bearing fits you are good to go? Are there things like number of balls, ball hardness,, speed ratings, etc? Not being a smart ass but asking out of my own ignorance.

I had a rear bearing failure on a way to a Busa Bash at the Dragon. Bike felt funny all day and the rear end started to feel like it was wagging, sort of how it feels when you spin the rear coming out of a turn. This got worse and worse and much more obvious and I slowed down, then finally stopped. Bearing was destroyed and you could grab the wheel and move it side to side. Was not to drammatic but if I had been in the mountains hitting it things might have been different. Easy pre-ride check for this is to grab the swingarm with one hand and the back of the tire with the other and pull. There should not be any side to side give in the wheel. When the Bearings went bad it would move about 1/2 inch either way. Bike only had 30K on it. The cause of this turned out to be me running the chain too tight.

 

[rubbersidedown]

Where to tap install/removal.
Where not too.
Measure:
OD (outside diameter)
ID (inside diameter)
Thickness
99 times out of 100,metric measurements. (maybe take bearing and micrometer to supply house)

Rubb.

 

[rubbersidedown]

Good Q @fallenarch . What yer going to get 99.9 % of the time when you ask for the needed bearing you are going to get handed exactly what Zook installed at the factory. But just to be sure,take your old bearing with you,lay it on the counter for side X side comparrison. Take OUT the guess work. Don't trust the 16 year old pimply faced kid behind the counter. Chances are if its a Timken,you will get a Timken. Toyo,same. Ask for that brand specifically. Cool?
Rubb.

 

[rubbersidedown]

So you're saying if the bearing fits you are good to go? Are there things like number of balls, ball hardness,, speed ratings, etc? Not being a smart ass but asking out of my own ignorance.

I had a rear bearing failure on a way to a Busa Bash at the Dragon. Bike felt funny all day and the rear end started to feel like it was wagging, sort of how it feels when you spin the rear coming out of a turn. This got worse and worse and much more obvious and I slowed down, then finally stopped. Bearing was destroyed and you could grab the wheel and move it side to side. Was not to drammatic but if I had been in the mountains hitting it things might have been different. Easy pre-ride check for this is to grab the swingarm with one hand and the back of the tire with the other and pull. There should not be any side to side give in the wheel. When the Bearings went bad it would move about 1/2 inch either way. Bike only had 30K on it. The cause of this turned out to be me running the chain too tight.

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Are there things like number of balls, ball hardness,, speed ratings, etc? Not being a smart ass but asking out of my own ignorance.
Very important Bro. But the "back yarder" need not worry. A Toyo installed by Zook is the same one the supply house has on the shelf. Double check thou. There will be numbers on both.Get an' exact match.
All that from a chain that was too tight...

Might be time for "Chain Slack Measurement 101"
Glad you made it out alive Bro.
Don't ever worry about being thought of as a smart ass. This is important shi7. Me,I don't trust anybody to work on my bike. (There are occasional exceptions) but VERY rare.
Ask away. Most of the guys on here have incredible patience and are very nice in their explanations. Me...meh...sometimes not so much so.
"Catch more flys......"
"Nothing nice to say....."
I usually give me opinion/advice like a drill sargent....
"LOUD & DIRTY" what it loses in touchy feely,it makes up for hopefully the right answer. Need a hug...they can run to Mommy.
But I always ask for flames in return.
As @hayabuser and others point out,the world does not revolve around me. I'm not always right. (thats what I have them to believe anyway) LOL.
I dunno...maybe learn together. I was always that smart ass kid in class.Challenge everything,but concede to the best answer in the end.
Maybe...

You know how I change a light bulb bro? It's easy. I grab onto the bulb,hold it, and wait for the fuggin' world to revolve around me.
I'm an' attention wh0re...so I've been told. Meh...
Rubb.

 

[Dopey]

However tempting,do not use your compressed air on it,spinning it (dry) making that cool whirring noise.

This is actually very good advice, I had one of the senior mechanics at a rental yard I spent years at (technically he was a senior in age as well) that yelled at me for doing that when repacking the wheel bearings on a trailer. He then proceeded to show me hits index and middle finger that had healed crooked after he was doing the exact thing and the bearing locked up and the force of ot twisted them around each other and broke both. That's one of those learning moments that stuck in my head and I now tell that story to every young mechanic I come across thinking that spinning that bearings with the blow gun is a game.

 

[rubbersidedown]

This is actually very good advice, I had one of the senior mechanics at a rental yard I spent years at (technically he was a senior in age as well) that yelled at me for doing that when repacking the wheel bearings on a trailer. He then proceeded to show me hits index and middle finger that had healed crooked after he was doing the exact thing and the bearing locked up and the force of ot twisted them around each other and broke both. That's one of those learning moments that stuck in my head and I now tell that story to every young mechanic I come across thinking that spinning that bearings with the blow gun is a game.

I was just hinting that it was not good for the bearing.
Holy krap Dopey.
Rubb.

 

[Bagherra]

That there is some good advice!!

 

[Berlin Germany]

@rubbersidedown
and at all

a minute ago i had a phone call with my special bearing supplier and he told me the following :

there are 3 main type bearings

1. angular contact ball bearings
2. deep groove ball bearings also called radial ball bearings
3. tapered roller bearings


technical description:

a. all wheel bearings for the bikes have to be rubber sealed at both sides - the original, one side metal sealed, is crap
b. the type of roller bearing like CN / C0 / C3 - tolerance values - does not matter - so he sells me always the standard C3 or CN wich he has in his shelf

___________________________________________________________________​

best choice would be no. 3 , but not available in the sizes we need for our bike´s wheels/rims.

2nd and also a very good choice would be the no.1 - it can stand also the axial forces we logically get into our bearings in the rims . this kind of bearing is available in "our" sizes but their price is around 5 times higher than no.2

3rd choice is, what we get (and use), the no. 2 - its main fault is that it can NOT stand the axial forces for the long term btw. they give up a very little bit and get space between balls and "rings" what makes our bearings aging (by deforming)

my supplier´s statement:
in principle the use of axial bearings (as we use them all day long) in rims/wheels is basically a technical crap / bullshi7 at all.

 

[Berlin Germany]

(...)Chances are if its a Timken,you will get a Timken. Toyo,same. Ask for that brand specifically. Cool?
Rubb.

hey bros

at 1st yes you´re right with timken

but if available "SKF / INA / FAG" are as good as "Timken / Toyo"

 

[bigdr]

Rarely used oem bearings ,

 

[jellyrug]

Basically most bearings follow the ISO designation system, linky below. The Busa follows ISO.

All you need is the stock bearing number and any supplier should be able to provide you with a replacement.

If you change away from the stock designation, could be an improvement provided you know what you are doing. Lots of debates here before, but the only advantage in specifying a different bearing is longer life than stock.

If you are purchasing bearings from someone who lists them as "Hayabusa Bearings", without a bearing designation, you have just met someone who is trying to make a bit of extra cash.

SKF

www.skf.com

 

[ZeePopo]

@rubbersidedown @Berlin Germany Wow great info guys. Can't we use this kind of information to buy ceramic bearings instead of paying 400 bucks for a set? That be awesome!

 

[jellyrug]

^^^
Yep, the bearing designation should be on the bearing itself. It is as simple as getting a ceramic equivalent.

Something I forgot to mention is storage of new bearings over a long period is important. Has to be in a dry environment and in original packaging. That is why it is always better to purchase from a recognized bearing supplier.

 

[rubbersidedown]

Good link @jellyrug ,good advice. "Googling" "Hayabusa parts" can be a good thing to save a few bucks here and there,but there are somethings you just shouldn't cheap out on...like bearings.
I tried to save about $200 bucks recently. I have a bad O2 sensor in my turbo system. SSI Tech wants over 200 for it. Amazon...30 bucks. They look close,both are 100PSI rated,both have the same 3-pin connector.
But the chinese one comes up short. How hard is it to copy a thread size?
Gonna take a few wraps of plumbers tape to take up the slack on this install.
The threads are smaller on the "Off Shore" product.

DOH!

Rubb.

 

[jellyrug]

Good link @jellyrug ,good advice. "Googling" "Hayabusa parts" can be a good thing to save a few bucks here and there,but there are somethings you just shouldn't cheap out on...like bearings.
I tried to save about $200 bucks recently. I have a bad O2 sensor in my turbo system. SSI Tech wants over 200 for it. Amazon...30 bucks. They look close,both are 100PSI rated,both have the same 3-pin connector.
But the chinese one comes up short. How hard is it to copy a thread size?
Gonna take a few wraps of plumbers tape to take up the slack on this install.
The threads are smaller on the "Off Shore" product.


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DOH!

View attachment 1626997

Rubb.

View attachment 1626996

Ruhba! As Gurera joked, COVID will last longer than anything else coming out of China.

With bearings, SKF, Timken, you can find them everywhere and they are as good as it gets.

Weird, I use to always buy the exact OEM battery directly from Yuasa. ( My Busa, she is the Mona Lisa, has to stay 100% authentic, don’t want to fug with that piece of art) use to last a little over one year (bike sits on stands a lot) So when the last one died, I wanted to ride. Went to Walmart and installed a new battery couple of hours later. I think that battery is now approaching three years. But, it was not made in China.

 

[Berlin Germany]

@rubbersidedown @Berlin Germany Wow great info guys. Can't we use this kind of information to buy ceramic bearings instead of paying 400 bucks for a set? That be awesome!

what are you writing about?
dear - 400 bucks for a set of 5 bearings is definitly the massive try to cheat you.

when i buy all these 5 standard roller bearings (SKF or FAG) in the off. bearing shop the summary is around 110 €
and all the sealings you can use 2 or 3 times without any problem.

 

[rubbersidedown]

Ruhba! As Gurera joked, COVID will last longer than anything else coming out of China.

With bearings, SKF, Timken, you can find them everywhere and they are as good as it gets.

Weird, I use to always buy the exact OEM battery directly from Yuasa. ( My Busa, she is the Mona Lisa, has to stay 100% authentic, don’t want to fug with that piece of art) use to last a little over one year (bike sits on stands a lot) So when the last one died, I wanted to ride. Went to Walmart and installed a new battery couple of hours later. I think that battery is now approaching three years. But, it was not made in China.

I'm on season 2 of an' 80 dolla Chinese battery. It is on the edge thou.
Rubb.

 

[ZeePopo]

what are you writing about?
dear - 400 bucks for a set of 5 bearings is definitly the massive try to cheat you.

when i buy all these 5 standard roller bearings (SKF or FAG) in the off. bearing shop the summary is around 110 €
and all the sealings you can use 2 or 3 times without any problem.

I don't mean regular bearings. I meant bearings with ceramic balls instead of steel. Like these.

20-0272WBK Suzuki Hayabusa Wheel Bearing Kit

Buy Wheel Bearing Kit from our store for only $395

woodcraft-cfm.com

Never seen ceramic bearings for the Hayabusa under 400

 

[Berlin Germany]

@ZeePopo

i guess that if the ceramic´s also are deep groove ball bearings they have the same problem like steels
and the enormously high price is completely pointless when used as a wheel bearing,
because the axial load on the balls is 1 : 1 identical to # 2 above,
because the basic design is identical and a radial bearing, from whatever material, is not designed for this application.

the axial load occurs with every slightest inclination or when driving over an obstacle, e.g. curb.

my summary from the phone call with my bearing supplier is that ceramic grooved bearings are just as unsuitable for wheels as those made of steel.
so don't waste your money on it.

The only real and much better suited are the angular contact ball bearings because they can also absorb axial forces.
see principal drawing of the angular

supplement to (ceramic) ball bearings :
inside the engine, as a bearing for the gear shafts etc., could! the ceramic bearings may be a better choice,
if you have significantly lower running / rolling resistance compared to those made of steel.
whether this lower resistance to running / rolling has a measurable effect on the performance on the rear wheel, in the form of more horsepower, is another question that needs to be clarified elsewhere.