Cam chain problem?

[santomotion]

Hello everyone,

Here is what it happens with my busa, it's a bit weird to me, I hope the knowledge it this forum can guide me a bit.
The bike was running "OK", it did hesitate a bit around 3000rpm plus it had some noise that looked like it could come from the chain.
After doing a bit of research I found out the Gen 1, specially the 1999 (mine), model had some issues with the Cam Cain Tensioner (CCT).
I did replace the CCT for a newer one from a Gen 1 2007 model. My bike didn't have the oil pipe that connects at the top of the CCT, I don't know if that came from the beginning (1999).
The bike now doesn't run properly anymore. Actually it can't rev up, as soon as I open any throttle the revs fall. It almost looks as if the cam chain had jumped one or two teeth and now there was some kind of offset with the valves timing (not enough to make the valves hit the pistons but enough to make the engine run horribly wrong).

I've tried a few thinks like checking all the vacuum pipes, checking injectors and plugs are all plugged correctly, valancing the throttle bodies, adjusting the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS)... but it still runs badly.

In this two videos you can see how the engine dies when some throttle is applied. There are also some detonations out of place, you can see them in cylinders 1 and 2

On this one you can see how if the engine goes over 4000rpm then it's easier to hold the revs up

The last option is going to be removing the engine and opening it to check the cam chain

Any comments will be very much appreciate. If you need any more info, pictures or videos I will happily provide them

Cheers!

 

[IG.]

That's weird! Since you removed that much already, you just need to remove the valve cover to get access to the cam chain. It's just a few more steps. Pretty much remove the plugs and disconnect a couple of connectors - just follow the manual for valve clearance check. Once you open the cover up, there is a way to check that timing is correct and other things. Again, just follow the manual. Seems you are a handy guy, so you should be able to do that. Just don't rush yourself, and be careful. Cover every plug hole with cloth/paper towel to save yourself from dropping a screw or something in there accidentally.

I would order valve cover gasket just in case, although most likely the old one will stay in place and will look like new.

My initial reaction was that maybe you got clogged injectors, but after watching/listening the videos, not sure.

 

[santomotion]

Thanks for the response! I didn't know I could check the timing only by removing the valve cover. That could save me from removing the engine for nothing...
I'll check on the manual to see what I need to look for to confirm the timing is in place and I'll report back.

Cheers!

 

[GIXERHP]

So did you install the tensioner without the oil line? The line pressurizes the tensioner!

When you took out the original tensioner there is a good chance you might have jumped a tooth on the sprockets.

You need to pull the valve cover and check the timing for sure,

 

[GIXERHP]

STOP RUNNING THE BIKE UNTIL YOU CHECK THE TIMING AND ADD THE LINE.

I saw in the video there is No oil line on the tensioner,, your going to damage something, if you keep running it

 

[santomotion]

Hi,

When I bought it (second hand), the CCT didn't have the oil line.

I'm looking at the manual right now to see how to check the timing is correct. I guess if it's not correct I would be able to remove the CCT and adjust the timing by "sliding" the chain.

I'll try to find an oil line to add it, as it looks like that could be the origin of the problem (every now and then I hear a horrible noise from the engine, looking back to could well be the chain jumping a tooth...)

Cheers!

 

[santomotion]

Hi again,

I'm looking on the 99 service manual (page 3-126) and the CCT is different and does not have the oil line.
How do I know if the engine block has the "hole" to attach the oil line?

Cheers!

 

[texomawaves]

I love troubleshooting old engines. Cam timing (difficult to diagnose) or maybe just burned or worn out valves. Please run a simple compression test on all 4 cylinders and report back!

 

[texomawaves]

I know this is a dumb recommendation (please forgive me), but please check the correct plug wire on the correct plug. I've had a plug wire swapped where the engine actually ran and backfired. It's an easy check. I still think you are on the right track with the cam timing skipped a chain link or two.

 

[santomotion]

I know this is a dumb recommendation (please forgive me), but please check the correct plug wire on the correct plug. I've had a plug wire swapped where the engine actually ran and backfired. It's an easy check. I still think you are on the right track with the cam timing skipped a chain link or two.

There is no dumb recommendation, I though the same thing. I've already done that check hopping to find a swapped plug but unfortunately they were all correct...

I'll find a pressure test tool and check it as it's an easy test and could tell me good info, I'll report back!

Cheers!

 

[Dscahill]

Looks like you have a timing problem, my guess is the chain skipped a tooth when the tensioner was replaced. Check the timing and go from there

best of luck

-D

 

[mysql]

After doing a bit of research I found out the Gen 1, specially the 1999 (mine), model had some issues with the Cam Cain Tensioner (CCT).
I did replace the CCT for a newer one from a Gen 1 2007 model.

The cam tensioner is a weak point, and will always be subject to failure. Replacing it with another of the same part won't fix that underlying issue.

The real solution is to get a manual chain tensioner. I picked up the APE manual tensioner for about $50 on ebay. That's a real fix for you.

APE manual cam chain tensioners are designed to replace the automatic and hydraulic tensioners on high performance engines. The automatic adjusters can back out when the throttle is closed suddenly at high rpm. This allows the cams to go momentarily out of time, and can result in bent valves and/or serious engine damage. Hydraulic tensioners have a tendency to put too much tension on the chain guide under high rpm/high oil pressure conditions, resulting in premature wear.

Both problems can be eliminated with the installation of the APE manual tensioner. No mater what the engine does, the cam chain tension will remain constant. An APE manual cam chain tensioner is a must for any kind of performance riding.

 

[santomotion]

Hi, I already had a look at the manual CCT, but I was a bit concerned about not knowing how to adjust it or how often would I need to readjust it.

But looking at all the issues and the price of the oil line, I may choose the manual CCT option

 

[GIXERHP]

You need to look at a micro fiche, for a newer bike such as a 04, look up the CCT, and parts, and then add them to the bike.
Now for the cam timing,, you need to remove the intake cam, to adjust the timing.

 

[santomotion]

Now for the cam timing,, you need to remove the intake cam, to adjust the timing.

Can I adjust the timing removing only the intake cam? I thought I would need to remove both (in and ex)

 

[GIXERHP]

All depends on what jumped? Intake or exhaust, or both

 

[texomawaves]

I'll second the GIXERHP comment. Setting a timing chain on a GM V8 is easy! BUT!!! on a DOHC engine not so much, lol... one or both cams may have skipped a cog. You must position the crank where the #1 cyl is at TDC (exactly), both int/exh valves must be closed, and there should be a timing mark on each camshaft sprocket. So... for starts, position your crank at TDC! Any results on the compression test yet? If the chain skipped you should see all 4 cyl presssures consistently low.

 

[santomotion]

Hi,

No pressure test yet.
I've looked at the manual and it specifies how to set the timing. I didn't think the fact that it will depend on which bit of the chain has jumped a teeth (if any)
I'll report back how it goes

 

[santomotion]

Do I need to drain engine oil before opening the cam chain side cover?

 

[IG.]

You mean the valve cover up top, right? No, you don't need to. Most oil is in the oil pan. You will barely see any oil up top where cam chain is.