Clutch Slipping "NEW" question

[DStroyer]

As some may have seen, I am running a turbo charged Busa in my ATV. Ive been spending most of my time racing, trying to get this thing dialed in to make consistant passes. By the way, kudo's to Velocity for a great turbo system!! Now, onto my questions. I have been using oem clutch fibers and plates, WITH 3 heavy and 3 eom springs. The clutch was still slipping. I replaced the clutch once again with all new fibers and plates, but with all 6 heavy springs. I still get the same thing. Let me explain a bit about my type of racing. Its only 300 foot, and usually in a heavy wet sandy type soil, and I run some very aggressive paddle tires. I understand that is quite hard on any clutch, but I see people running alot more hp than I with a 3 spring swap, and its working just fine. When I say the clutch is slipping, I mean when I grab 3rd gear, ( I launch in 2nd), it litterally bangs the rev limiter , and I have to back off to get it to hook (the clutch that is), and I can go again. Now, Ive seen cars with these motors and they dont seem to have any issues.

I have a centrifugal lockup clutch to put in. But I have a few questions first. Is there something else that Im missing that could be causing this thing to slip this badly. Yes, all the fibers and discs are in properly!!!! These heavy springs are extremely heavy, and I cant see why or how the clutch could be slipping with them. The clutch is very very stiff with these springs in, too stiff in my opinion. Now when I put the lockup clutch in, It will be just fine off the line, since you have to put the oems back in to make it work, but when running down the track, isnt the lockup going to make it nearly impossible to pull the clutch in?? With all the weight I have to add, to just make up what Im missing without heavy springs, Im not sure the lockup is going to work the way Im need it to.

So, Im asking, is there anything else I should be looking at causing my clutch to slip so terribly?? Also, will the lockup clutch be impossible to use to shift when installed and accelerating at high speeds? Has anyone else ran into this issue??

Gary

 

[GPW]

Gary, looks like you need to add a little more weight to the lock-up arms....MTC recommends a quick shifter or air shifter with some type of fuel kill when under load...., also is the clutch height too high aiding in the clutch draggin causing the clutch to heat up faster than normal...? Just some thoughts...

 

[Professor]

Gary, Do you have the sprocket cover braced or an aftermarked billet cover? The OEM can flex/break with heavy springs.

What is the total clutch stack height?

Rick

 

[DStroyer]

Yes, I have the sproket cover braced. Although its braced, with the heavy springs in, I can still see some flexing. I will pull the clutch out tomorrow and measure the stack height. I didnt think of that. If the stack height is too thick, then it will be rubbing causing to much heat, right?? Heat causes the oil to break down and run off. Im going to replace all fibers and steels again, (4th set in 2 months). I will also try to get some specs on the push rod pin length from Suzuki, to see if for some reason, the rod is not releasing all the way when the clutch is out. Another thought I had was this. I am running the APE billet oil pan. I wonder if for some reason the pans geometry is not keeping the discs saturated with oil the way it should, and the discs are runing dry for some reason. I wonder if adding a few oil jets directed at the top of the discs would cure this problem. Also, I am not running the oil cooler on this machine, since we dont see any high speeds for more than 3 seconds of accelerating, and then ideling back to the staging lanes.

So, I will measure the stack height tomorrow, and I will take a good look at the pan geometry for oil sump. Is anyone running a lockup, if so, do you have any issues shifting at high speeds??

Thanks,
Gary

 

[dadofthree]

Good luck and post some pics of that badazz in action

 

[OZBooster]

Is your clutch hub std or welded/aftermarket, needs the std "lockup " sytem for heavy springs to hold.
If you use the lockup put an ign kill on the gearlever or just go to an airshifter.

 

[DStroyer]

It is still stock. I have not put a one piece in yet. Are you saying I should switch to a one piece, or I should leave the oem 2 pc in??

Gary

 

[OZBooster]

OEM 2 piece and ape turbo clutch springs would be the best you could do before going to lockup.
I take out my lockup and put in the turbo spring combination on my landspeed bike when on the salt as the slip/grip scenario seems to upset the lockup and burns plates .

 

[DStroyer]

yes, then I have the best set up I can get, but something doesnt seem right. Just curious about this, and hopefully I can describe this right. On the inside of the clutch basket, there is a wave washer and a flat washer that fill in the space on the inside diameter of the inner most fiber. (skinny one as some put it). This washer/wave washer fit over the inner basket. Now that you know what Im talking about, the only reason I see these things being in there is for this, if the clutch fibers get too thin, thus wearing out, this washer set up would prevent excess wearing, and keep a metal on metal connection between the backer plate and the steel of the fiber plates from occuring. (if they got to thin) I assume this is some sort of early warning that the fibers need replacing. I have replaced these once when my first set of fibers went. I will measure these tomorrow to see if they are narrower than the thickness of the first (skinny) fiber plate. If they are for some reason thicker, this would be preventing the clutch to work as a whole, and creating a weak link.

I have some measuring to do. I really dont want to install the lockup, because I dont want to have to use a kill box on shifting, or an air shifter. Im certain that when I get this slipping issue resolved, I can gear and tire this machine to make a complete pass in 1 gear. (no shifting). The lockup will go in after this is resolved, because I think there is something else causing this, and it would be a bandaid on the problem for now.

On a side note, this thing is absolutely incredible!!!! For the few passes I have been able to make without any slipping, the power was intense, and the acceleration is like nothing I have ever felt. I do all that I can to hold onto the handlebars. Some people are impressed with a Viper or a Zo6 doing 0-60 in 4 seconds, well, these people should give this 0-90+ in 3.75 seconds a try. This machine weighs in at just over 500 lbs, and Im not a skinny lad at 235, and it gets up and goes with all that weight. Ive asked a few lightweights to give it a whirl, and I have had no takers.

Gary

 

[OZBooster]

Thats the anti shudder plate, 99-00 busa's didn't have it and were difficult to engage the clutch smoothly,
You may be able to shim the springs a little for more pressure but be carefull of coilbind, and check the ramps in the 2 piece hub are in good condition.

 

[8Daytona8]

What type master are you using?Make sure it is able to let all the pressure off after its released. This is a big problem with alot of bikes with slipping clutches. Piston in master won't uncover hole to let fluid back into reservoir. Some have opened the hole for a more sudden engagement off the line.

 

[DStroyer]

After reading another topic in here about the oil, I may have found the culprit. Ive been running a semi synthetic, (HP4 non moly). I think this oil is breaking down and running off the clutch when its hot. This will make the plates run dry. Between a friends thoughts, and the topic on what oil to run, I think this is the logical next step. Im going to switch to a full synthetic and install yet another new set of fibers and steels, and give this another go. With our type of racing, the bike really never gets a cool down period. We make a pass, then idle back to the staging lanes, where it never sits for more than 5 minutes or so, before its time for the next round. Im not running the oil cooler on this machine, because it never sees sustained speeds other than dune riding.
Last Sunday, when the clutch slipped so bad, I had no choice but to change it. The change took 10 minutes. Becuase of the slipping, the oil was burning hot to say the least. I installed it with all 6 heavy springs, and I didnt realize it until today when thinking about it, the clutch was still quite soft, and not very hard hitting like it should have been. This was probably due to the oil running off fromthe heat.

So, sorry for the long winded questions and comments, I guess Im just thinking out loud about the issue. I will post some results of the oil change.

Thanks,

Gary