Court lets Drunken Driver write off Crash Damage

skydivr

Jumps from perfectly good Airplanes
Donating Member
Under the "You have got to be freakin' kidding me" heading. Once again, personal responsiblity is thrown out the window and sets a bad precedent :banghead:

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Court lets drunken driver write off truck damage

Drink, drive, wreck the car . . . and write off the damage on your tax return.

For one taxpayer, that scenario became a reality after he appealed a decision by the Internal Revenue Service.

The U.S. Tax Courtlast week allowed a man to write off thousands of dollars in damage after he totaled his pickup while driving drunk.

While it's not unusual to deduct property damage (this is claimed as a casualty loss deduction on Form 4684), the circumstances of the case -- which required a judge to decide if the driver was or wasn't willfully negligent -- set it apart.

It also shows that disgruntled taxpayers can challenge the IRS, and win, on some pretty odd cases.

The case also points up a tax code gap. While it turns on the idea of willful negligence, tax rules do not define what that means for casualty losses, according to Jay Starkman, an Atlanta certified public accountantand author of the book "The Sex of a Hippopotamus: A Unique History of Taxes and Accounting."

The outcome, says Starkman, "was unusual."

Court documents described the circumstances: In 2005, the taxpayer, Justin M. Rohrs, had bought a 2006 Ford-350 pickup truck for $40,210. Months later, he went to a gathering at a friend's house. Expecting he would be drinking, he arranged for a ride to and from home. But after he got home he decided to drive to his parents' house. En route, his truck slid off an embankment and rolled over. Rohrs was arrested on drunken-driving charges and taken to the hospital.

His insurance company turned down a loss claim because of his arrest and DUI citation. Then the IRS turned down his claim for a $33,629 casualty loss deduction on his Form 1040. Rohrs took his case to Tax Court, which decided differently.

Tax Court cases
Driving after drinking doesn't amount to willful negligence in itself, the judge said in a Dec. 10 opinion. Instead, he wrote, the level of intoxication and the quality of the driving have to be taken into consideration. In the case of Rohrs, his blood-alcohol level was at 0.09%, just slightly over California's legal limit of 0.08%.

The judge also applauded Rohrs for having arranged a ride home from the party.

Paul Caron, the associate dean of faculty and Charles Hartsock Professor of Law at the University of Cincinnati College of Law, said he found it hard to see how a court "in this day and age would treat someone driving under the influence of alcohol as not engaged in a 'willful act or willful negligence' under the tax code."

As for the judge's suggestion that Rohrs was "reasonably unaware" that he was doing something wrong, Caron says: "Really? When he had to be driven home from a party because he planned to and did get drunk? And then hops behind the wheel despite drinking at the party?"

Established by Congress under Article I of the U.S. Constitution, the Tax Court is in Washington, D.C., and its judges travel around the country to conduct trials in various cities. The court is a place taxpayers can go when they think they have gotten a raw deal from the IRS.

Rohrs couldn't be reached for comment.

This article was reported by Arden Dale for The Wall Street Journal.
 
i don't really see the problem....

the .08 BAC is a legal definition defines by a state.....it in no way can determine whether a person is impaired. it is an arbitrary number decided on by lawmakers.

in this ruling the Judge is simply stating, that Mr. Rohrs was not willfully negligent and that the damage could be written off as a loss for the IRS.
 
But his BAC was .09, which is ABOVE the legal limit; therefore by driving with a BAC above the legal limit, IMO, he WAS negligent.
 
But his BAC was .09, which is ABOVE the legal limit; therefore by driving with a BAC above the legal limit, IMO, he WAS negligent.

that is illegal...not negligent.

the BAC is a bunch of crap. you cannot use BAC to determine if anyone is impaired, this a way generate revenue, please special interest like MADD and the Insurance Lobbyists.
 
A big can of worms is being opened here that is going to spawn even more stupidity.

Driving above the legal limit (and maybe even below it, but let's just for arguments sake make it simple) is not only illegal, but ALSO negligent...
 
Although, I could see how this argument could be used elsewhere if pushed to it's limits, such as: You were speeding when you wrecked, so you were negligent, so no insurance claim....
 
A big can of worms is being opened here that is going to spawn even more stupidity.

Driving above the legal limit (and maybe even below it, but let's just for arguments sake make it simple) is not only illegal, but ALSO negligent...

You know I was trying to come up with a counter-arguement but truth is you are right. Even if you argue that alcohol effects everyone different, or that the number is arbitrary, you still know what the legal limit is so if you go above it you are being negligent. Of course if you were speeding and got into an accident are you not also being negligent?
 
your driving down the road.......enter an intersection.....and get T-Boned by another car, that runs the red light.

my BAC is .09.....so i am negligent?

please explain how my having 2 beers, forced you to hit me?


there are three issues:

1. legal BAC
2. actual impairment
3. negligence

can you tell the difference between .07 and .09? one is illegal and one is not. the question is was the driver impaired....if he was great, but .09 does not mean he was impaired or negligent.
 
your driving down the road.......enter an intersection.....and get T-Boned by another car, that runs the red light.

my BAC is .09.....so i am negligent?

please explain how my having 2 beers, forced you to hit me?


there are three issues:

1. legal BAC
2. actual impairment
3. negligence

can you tell the difference between .07 and .09? one is illegal and one is not. the question is was the driver impaired....if he was great, but .09 does not mean he was impaired or negligent.


I would say he was negligent because he knew that having even one beer would raise his BAC so he put himself in the position he is in whether or not he was impaired. I can exceed the speed limit and dive just fine but that could still be considered negligent.
 
1.)Legal BAC is a line in the sand. Does it mean everyone over the limit is not able to operate a vehicle safely? No. of course not...but it has been proven that around that limit you are impaired meaning no matter who you are you don't function as well as you would sober. Its been proven over and over and over that drinking will effect your judgement and hand eye coordination. Its not a perfect system but it allows you do drink some and still get yourself home. Its a guideline, we have 45mph speed limits on roads were much higher speeds are done safely everyday but we still think its a good idea to have limits right? What other system are would be go by?

2.) Why should we have to figure out each persons actual impairment level at each case? When you apply for a drivers license you are tested on the laws, you are able to play by them or not. Its is a choice no one is going to make you drink and then drive. This is completely a null point.

Unless you are actually suggesting that you can get loaded and then go down to the DMV and retest for an "impaired permit" where you can prove that you are able to operate a vehicle at a certain BAC. That is the ONLY way that I could see testing your actual impairment level as a useful.

3.)When you are able to understand the laws, and yet you break them you are being negligentful. Do I agree with the above situation with the "drunk" driver being faulted? No, but they should be cited for drunk driving after all they were knowingly breaking the law.

I understand a person may not know if they are at .07 or .09 but if your close enough to have to guess your should be smart enough to sit your butt at home. :beerchug:
 
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that is illegal...not negligent.

the BAC is a bunch of crap. you cannot use BAC to determine if anyone is impaired, this a way generate revenue, please special interest like MADD and the Insurance Lobbyists.

Then, IMO, his case should have been denied. The rollover occurred while he was performing an illegal act.

Our judicial/penal system is all screwed up anyway... Lawyers aren't any better; they are the ones arguing for this stuff.
 
1.)Legal BAC is a line in the sand. Does it mean everyone over the limit is not able to operate a vehicle safely? No. of course not...but it has been proven that around that limit you are impaired meaning no matter who you are you don't function as well as you would sober. Its been proven over and over and over that drinking will effect your judgement and hand eye coordination. Its not a perfect system but it allows you do drink some and still get yourself home. Its a guideline, we have 45mph speed limits on roads were much higher speeds are done safely everyday but we still think its a good idea to have limits right? What other system are would be go by?

2.) Why should we have to figure out each persons actual impairment level at each case? When you apply for a drivers license you are tested on the laws, you are able to play by them or not. Its is a choice no one is going to make you drink and then drive. This is completely a null point.

Unless you are actually suggesting that you can get loaded and then go down to the DMV and retest for an "impaired permit" where you can prove that you are able to operate a vehicle at a certain BAC. That is the ONLY way that I could see testing your actual impairment level as a useful.

3.)When you are able to understand the laws, and yet you break them you are being negligent. Do I agree with the above situation with the "drunk" driver being faulted? No, but they should be cited for drunk driving after all you were knowingly breaking the law.

I understand a person may not know if they are at .07 or .09 but if your close enough to have to guess your should be smart enough to sit your butt at home. :beerchug:

here is the problem.....

nobody is argueing the DUI, the argument is whther or not the driver was "willfully negligent".

there is no way a person can tell the difference between .07 and .09, so cannot willfully decide anything.

guy A has two beers, drives home...gets into accident. blows a .07 and the IRS lets him calim the damage as a loss.

guy B has two beers, drives home gets into an accident, blows a .09 and the IRS does not let him claim the loss.

based on an arbitrary decision by law makers to generate more revenue....
 
here is the problem.....

nobody is argueing the DUI, the argument is whther or not the driver was "willfully negligent".

there is no way a person can tell the difference between .07 and .09, so cannot willfully decide anything.

guy A has two beers, drives home...gets into accident. blows a .07 and the IRS lets him calim the damage as a loss.

guy B has two beers, drives home gets into an accident, blows a .09 and the IRS does not let him claim the loss.

based on an arbitrary decision by law makers to generate more revenue....

Guy C who has 2 beers and doesn't drive anywhere gets no DUI, Keeps his truck and saves a lot of money on lawyers.
 
Guy C who has 2 beers and doesn't drive anywhere gets no DUI, Keeps his truck and saves a lot of money on lawyers.

Guy D has a half a jar of moonshine, grabs a shotgun and shoots guys A,B, and C. Now we have something completly new to discuss:rofl:
 
Guy C who has 2 beers and doesn't drive anywhere gets no DUI, Keeps his truck and saves a lot of money on lawyers.

guy D does not drink.....slam his car into a family of four, but its ok....because dad had two beer at dinner and is .09.....

dad and mom are dead, one child is in a coma and the other will never walk again.....

the insurance refuses to pay them anything because dad was "willfully negligent" in driving due to his .09 BAC.

guy D, gets his vehicle replaced....because even though he rammed into a car that was not moving, dad was "willfully negligent" and his insurance company pays guy D's medical.....
 
guy D does not drink.....slam his car into a family of four, but its ok....because dad had two beer at dinner and is .09.....

dad and mom are dead, one child is in a coma and the other will never walk again.....

the insurance refuses to pay them anything because dad was "willfully negligent" in driving due to his .09 BAC.

guy D, gets his vehicle replaced....because even though he rammed into a car that was not moving, dad was "willfully negligent" and his insurance company pays guy D's medical.....

no, guy d had the moonshine. apparently you type too slowly.....your guy would have to be guy E :laugh:
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