Degreeing cams
- Thread starter Gixx1300R
- Start date
Frank Adams
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the stock ecm doesn't allow you to do a hole lot of adjusting.
Gixx1300R
Registered
The reason that I'm asking is because I read somewhere that the Busa's cam are 106 or 105 intake and 99 exhaust.I'm thinking of degreeing mine to around 106 intake and 105 exhaust(I will be checking vale piston clearance).I found a set of adjustable cam sprockets with the carrier for $107.00 for the GSXR 750s.The 96-99 GSXR 750 have the same cam sprockets as the Busa.
Frank Adams
Registered
gixxer1300r: the cam sensor?
[This message has been edited by frank adams (edited 30 November 1999).]
[This message has been edited by frank adams (edited 30 November 1999).]
OB_Malcolm
Registered
Further, I know from a well informed source the hot ticket is to buy a stock intake cam and install it on the exhaust side. So if anyone has had that mod done please find out the specs and post them because I am doing that mod within 60 days
Frank,
If the ecm does not recognize the degreeing of the cam, does that mean I don't need to slot the gears to degree in a new set of 'Yosh' aftermarket cams?
Also, what cam would you recommend for a stock 1300 motor that has a M4 exhaust, Web cams has several different grinds available and Yosh offers just the one that I know of.
If the ecm does not recognize the degreeing of the cam, does that mean I don't need to slot the gears to degree in a new set of 'Yosh' aftermarket cams?
Also, what cam would you recommend for a stock 1300 motor that has a M4 exhaust, Web cams has several different grinds available and Yosh offers just the one that I know of.
Frank Adams
Registered
sorry! but i'll have to disagree with you on this one jeff.
there IS, alot more to it than just opening and closing of the valves. i could go into a long dicussion about this but the last thing i would be saying is that....since this bike doesn't have a o2 sensor in the exhaust anywhere to make up for the changes your doing with the cam timing, it's only going to do what it's programed to do...
(no disrespect)
there IS, alot more to it than just opening and closing of the valves. i could go into a long dicussion about this but the last thing i would be saying is that....since this bike doesn't have a o2 sensor in the exhaust anywhere to make up for the changes your doing with the cam timing, it's only going to do what it's programed to do...
(no disrespect)
Ok, lets see what happens here:
Start your bike, while the engine is running, disconnect the cam sensor, guess what....it will stay running. The cam sensor is only used for piston position during startup.
If you can't degree cams on a busa, why does Yosh make a slotted cam gear adjuster?
Start your bike, while the engine is running, disconnect the cam sensor, guess what....it will stay running. The cam sensor is only used for piston position during startup.
If you can't degree cams on a busa, why does Yosh make a slotted cam gear adjuster?
OB_KawAbuser
Registered
Jeff some people just won't listen to reason.
The relative point of the sensor and the cam end have nothing to do with the mechanical location of the lobes. The sensor does not care where the lobes are only the relative position of the cam end.
Did that some how make any sense?
Or does Yosh Japan not have a clue about the degreeing cams and engine mods for a Hayabusa.
The relative point of the sensor and the cam end have nothing to do with the mechanical location of the lobes. The sensor does not care where the lobes are only the relative position of the cam end.
Did that some how make any sense?
Or does Yosh Japan not have a clue about the degreeing cams and engine mods for a Hayabusa.
I'll say this one more time: You can degree the cams on a Hayabusa, GSXR750, 600, TL....
All you are doing with cam degreeing is changing is the valve opening/closing with relation of piston location. This will not in any way damage, effect, or alter the CMP's job or efficiency. The CMP is a nonadjustable sensor in a fixed location (on the end of the intake cam.
The sensor still reads the same just the power curve changes due to the different cam timing characteristics. You will not have a hp increase, just effect the torque curve.
The GSXR750 has the same CMP sensor and ECM setup, we made several changes to our race bike last year w/o any problem other than the slotted adjustable cam gear slipping at Daytona (gave us great hi end speed, but made the bike unrideable in the infield).
RoadRacing World had a good shot of Shane with fire from the exhaust, this was not f/i problmes, it was the slipped cam sprocket on the exhaust cam. We did not find this out until we missed the race (co$tly mistake).
Here is the picture from RRW:
http://fatman.pro-libertate.com/~jeffw/assets/shane.gif
All you are doing with cam degreeing is changing is the valve opening/closing with relation of piston location. This will not in any way damage, effect, or alter the CMP's job or efficiency. The CMP is a nonadjustable sensor in a fixed location (on the end of the intake cam.
The sensor still reads the same just the power curve changes due to the different cam timing characteristics. You will not have a hp increase, just effect the torque curve.
The GSXR750 has the same CMP sensor and ECM setup, we made several changes to our race bike last year w/o any problem other than the slotted adjustable cam gear slipping at Daytona (gave us great hi end speed, but made the bike unrideable in the infield).
RoadRacing World had a good shot of Shane with fire from the exhaust, this was not f/i problmes, it was the slipped cam sprocket on the exhaust cam. We did not find this out until we missed the race (co$tly mistake).
Here is the picture from RRW:
http://fatman.pro-libertate.com/~jeffw/assets/shane.gif
I have not tried to degree the cams yet, but I tend to agree with jeffw on this.
The CMP sensor is used to tell which cylinder is in need of firing, and I BELIEVE (not positive) the CKP position sensor tells the ECM when to fire the spark plug.
The reason you can disconnect the CMP sensor and the bike still runs is called fail safe mode. It WILL NOT START THOUGH. The bike still runs because the ECM remembers which cylinder fired last before the sensor signal was lost. It will not start because the ECM has no reference to which cylinder needs firing.
A few degrees of cam gear (intake is the only one that has the sensor) change should still allow the ECM to determine which cylinder is in line for spark.
The CKP sensor is what I believe determines ignition timing and fuel injection timing.
Bob
Read the manual and now I am more certain.
[This message has been edited by Bob (edited 25 November 1999).]
The CMP sensor is used to tell which cylinder is in need of firing, and I BELIEVE (not positive) the CKP position sensor tells the ECM when to fire the spark plug.
The reason you can disconnect the CMP sensor and the bike still runs is called fail safe mode. It WILL NOT START THOUGH. The bike still runs because the ECM remembers which cylinder fired last before the sensor signal was lost. It will not start because the ECM has no reference to which cylinder needs firing.
A few degrees of cam gear (intake is the only one that has the sensor) change should still allow the ECM to determine which cylinder is in line for spark.
The CKP sensor is what I believe determines ignition timing and fuel injection timing.
Bob
Read the manual and now I am more certain.
[This message has been edited by Bob (edited 25 November 1999).]
Frank Adams
Registered
thanks bob for not being so blatent!
kawabuser, since you've become "Top Dawg" engineer at suzuki & from all the hours of research, can "you" (in your own words) tell me if the ignition system from the 750 will enter change with the busa? if so, why haven't you let this out before now? do you have any ideal what you can benifit from this? if not, why not?
i'm sure JeffW can come up with some info on this one...
also thanks for the "sarcastic" responces. i never expected the both of you to "ripp down"
on me about this subject.
.....frank
kawabuser, since you've become "Top Dawg" engineer at suzuki & from all the hours of research, can "you" (in your own words) tell me if the ignition system from the 750 will enter change with the busa? if so, why haven't you let this out before now? do you have any ideal what you can benifit from this? if not, why not?
i'm sure JeffW can come up with some info on this one...
also thanks for the "sarcastic" responces. i never expected the both of you to "ripp down"
on me about this subject.
.....frank
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