Dry, wet, what are all these? :)

[scooterlord]

hello! complete newbie questions from me...

what's the difference between a wet and a dry kit?
how much harm do they do in the busa motor? are they very harmful so that you are worried?
do they need any extra mods?
do they mess with power commander?

and IF anyone cares to describe how the whole thing works..

thanks, expecting to learn a few new stuff

 

[CAT3]

Wet Kit injects nitrous oxide and fuel (either pump gas, race gas, propane etc), is setup after the MAF/MAS and does not require larger fuel injectors, but depending on fuel pump volume vs pressure, may require a higher output fuel pump.
Dry Kit injects a fog of Nitrous Oxide only, must be setup before the MAF/MAS which detects the N2O and adds the necessary fuel via fuel map in the PCM or ECM. May reuqire larger fuel injectors, and pump since the fuel is provided from the PCM.

When properly installed and used, nitrous is as safe for an engine as any other power adder, i.e. turbo or supercharger. Use more than the design limits of the components and you can break ring lands off the pistons, melt plugs, etc..

Additional mods, or supporting items depend on your total combination. The Busa in stock form is capable of 40-50dry or 100wet from my research, however if you already have pipes, ported cyl head etc...you wont be able to run as much until you do the bottom end.
You would want to maximize the safety of the system by using a step colder spark plug and slightly tighter gap.
Mess with the PC? No, but the PC can be utilized to take advantage of additional fueling, like getting the AFR lower (which is safer) than you would on motor alone.

Once installed, you would have an on/off switch and an arming switch. You open the bottle, turn the arming switch on, and once in gear & Throttle position you want to start spraying, you press the button for on, and it injects N2O (or N2O and fuel) thru a small nozzle, which fans out the mix into a fine atomized state which allows it travel thru the intake tract, into the cylinder. Once in the cylinder, the compressed mixture will be heated beyond the requisite 572*F where the 2 x nitrogen and 1 x oxygen molecules separate. The additonal oxygen allows the additional fuel (either from the wet shot, or the computer compensating by adding fuel) to burn, thus providing more power. Thats it in a nutshell.

*note* the power level listed above was found by me searching this site and others. I have not used Nitrous on my bike, but I plan to. I have however been around the block a lot with nitrous on my 2000 LS1 Z28 Camaro...using wet, direct port and dry, as well as combinations. The theoretical operation is unchanged no matter what internal combustion engine you are using. The power level again is dependent on what the sum of all interal parts & supporting parts can handle...

Charlie

 

[scooterlord]

very descriptive! thanks... whenever I get such responses in any kind of subject, how irrelevant I am comes in mind... cought a couple of stuff from your answer though, that's why I thank you. what is AFR though? what is the 'proper use' of a nitrous system?

main reason I asked about nitrous is because after exhausts, pc3, air filter and maybe a tre, there's isn't any other 'cheap' mods for the bike.. unless there are and am not aware of :/

 

[CAT3]

AFR= Air Fuel Ratio. Ideal idle and cruise is 14.7:1, on the NA (naturally aspirated) you want 12.8-13.0 at rpm you make max torque, and 13.1-13.3 where you make peak hp. On bottle-fed runs you want it richer, which will also give more torque (torque favors fuel where HP favors leaner conditions) around 12.0-12.5:1 for smaller shots and richer for larger.

Proper use: There is a NLT (no less than) rpm limit, like on most cars you do not want to spray under 3,000 rpms. Why? Fuel puddling in the intake tract, where the heavier charge (fuel and nitrous) settle against the wall and can lead to a backfire. Also, the lower the rpm the greater amount of torque you make, too much torque is what kills engines, split blocks etc... You can limit torque spikes by using a progressive controller, multiple stages, or waiting higher in the rpm band to engage the nitrous. Dont spray thru the shifts or with the clutch disengaged, as it will rapidly exceed the rpm limits of the engine, and or lay on the rev limiter...some limiters reduce timing, no problems, some reduce fuel = big problems. Only use it at WOT.

 

[chevelle]

lots of good info there,but i would take issue with a few things(sort of) minimum rpm to spray is 1/2 of redline as a general rule,but higher is better imo,i spray my busa at 7 k,my zx12 at 8 k

a dry shot will need extra fuel regardless of where the nozzle is,unless you are using a very tiny jet

at a minimum with a dry shot you will need a pc,clutch springs,slave support,quality chain

 

[CAT3]

lots of good info there,but i would take issue with a few things(sort of) minimum rpm to spray is 1/2 of redline as a general rule,but higher is better imo,i spray my busa at 7 k,my zx12 at 8 k

a dry shot will need extra fuel regardless of where the nozzle is,unless you are using a very tiny jet

at a minimum with a dry shot you will need a pc,clutch springs,slave support,quality chain

Good inside tips... Like I said, I havent sprayed my bike, but I used to go thru a 10lb bottle per night in my car

hence the 3k rpm, which is a lil less than half, but any lower and velocity of the incoming charge is not great enough to properly get distributed to all cylinders.
On the injectors and fueling issue for dry, I've read (I know sometimes internet info is from some pimple-azzed kid thinking he knows it all...) on the forums the Busa can take 40dry w/o any other mods? I do agree its better to be safer then sorry if it goes lean or has too much timing.

 

[heavybusa]

Good info here guys.

 

[frisbee]

Got to love that laughing gas!

 

[ECC Prez]

Better watch out, the gas is highly addictive. I run a wet system with a full throttle switch and couldnt be happier. I am thinking of a bigger shot though and adding a ramp to make it a little more progressive.

 

[frisbee]

 

[tinbender0]

I have a question on this.....Once you engage the nitrous, what happens if you abort( let off throttle)??? Or can you abort

 

[Mr Brown]

(tinbender0 @ Nov. 09 2006,21:06) I have a question on this.....Once you engage the nitrous, what happens if you abort( let off throttle)??? Or can you abort

You should have a throttle position sensor (TPS) which is a micro switch wired to the throttle. The system will only engage at a set position, (80%, wfo, wherever it's at) when you close the throttle, it goes back past the spot and shuts the gas back off.

 

[tinbender0]

Once you abort ,and the solenoid closes, does it feel like you hit the brakes? I guess what I'm asking is when you hit the button does it feel like its going to rip the bike out from under you and if you get off the throttle or you run out of nos does it feel like you are going to go the other way, or does it slowly taper off??

 

[Mr Brown]

(tinbender0 @ Nov. 09 2006,21:19) Once you abort ,and the solenoid closes, does it feel like you hit the brakes? I guess what I'm asking is when you hit the button does it feel like its going to rip the bike out from under you and if you get off the throttle or you run out of nos does it feel like you are going to go the other way, or does it slowly taper off??

There are many variables that factor on how hard the hit is, it's almost tunable. In other words, how hard do you want it to hit? Coming off the gas, it doesn't feel like you've hit the brakes, it just doesn't pull as hard.

 

[tinbender0]

10-4, thanks brown. I was just wondering , I have never rode a nitrous bike before , still thinking about getting me a setup..They seem fairly inexpensive, and I've talked to a few guys that have 'em, they say "no problems"

 

[Mr Brown]

(tinbender0 @ Nov. 10 2006,05:48) 10-4, thanks brown. I was just wondering , I have never rode a nitrous bike  before , still thinking about getting me a setup..They seem fairly inexpensive, and I've talked to a few guys that have 'em, they say "no problems"

It will be fun. Just get with someone that knows how to set it up, I think there are a few members down your way with experience, and have at it.....

 

[tinbender0]

aight who's the sucka that lowered my rating?

lol.

 

[Postal]

What do they mean in drag racing by "single stage" and "double stage" of nitros?

Thanks.

P.

 

[Mr Brown]

Single stage is one set of jets for a given hp rating, you can also have another set of jets, a second stage, which is activated after the first, adding more nitrous. They come on progressively, so as not to shock the motor too hard.

 

[CrashBomb]

Single stage is one shot of N20 of a certain size, say a simple 40 shot dry. When you add a second stage you add another complete system of injection (instead of just turning up the amount of nitrous in the first stage). Usually this is rpm or time based, i.e. the smaller first stage will hit off the line to maximize traction and the larger second stage will come on further down the track to increase top end power.

Sometimes both stages operate together at a preset point, making a sort of "three-stage" system.
Stage 1 is stage 1
Stage 2 is stage 2
Stage 3 is stage 1 & 2 together
I should add that this isn't an exact set of terms and you'll run into as many iterations of this as you'll find nicknames for nitrous.

Some people even mix and match dry and wet. You can use a small dry shot down low and a bigger wet shot at the top end.