E85 and Dry Nitrous

[cavenposs]

Hi,

Been running E85 for a few race meetings now and like its cooling effect and its consistency for DYO racing. In the process of planning a motor and fuel system build for Nitrous and would like to keep using E85. (drum race fuel, not pump).

Couple of questions on the fuel system-
Upgraded internal fuel pump such as AEM 320 lph and standard reg or external and adjustable?
To get the fuel flow required I'm guessing billet rail and bigger injectors?

Up to 100hp shot on built Gen 2 motor in Bking.

Is anyone else doing this or am I making a mistake thinking this way?

Thanks

 

[RansomT]

I'm rarely on this board, but I was trolling over here and saw your post.

I'm now running "E85" with a significate shot of nitrous. With a correct tune and fuel system to keep up, 100 HP should be a walk in the park.

A couple of points:

1) The secret is that you need to tune "E85" to low, low 11:1 range with plenty of timing removed.

2) I use a brand of Ethanol called Ignite. It's blended 90% ethanol that brings the effective octane up to 114. For some reason that I have yet to understand, turbo guys can get away with pump E85 but big shots of nitrous can't. I do know that the gas company's can blend what ever they want to with that 79% ethanol that is in pump E85 as long as a car will start and the octane is 95 or above. VP C85 may work just fine, but I also have read while it is consistent, it isn't all that friendly to big shots either.

 

[RansomT]

Above post is using the "gasoline" scale. Actual AFR should be around 7.5:1

 

[cavenposs]

Good info Ransom T, thankyou.

 

[Boosted Cycle Perf]

Ransomt,

Care to explaine why such a super fat afr, and pulling timing?

I don't do much with nitrous, and all my experience with e85 has been in turbo apps. That being said we usually add anywhere from 5-7 degrees of timing, and depending on power level we let them go as lean as 12.0.

That being said, knowing the advantages of e85, that seems extremely counteractive. I actually think this may be the first tread I've ever read where someone's said pull tons of timing and fatten it up.

 

[Boosted Cycle Perf]

Just saw this was for a dry shot, so the super fat afr (assumingly before spray is used) makes sense. The timing however still doesn't.

 

[cavenposs]

Thanks to both for your input, any other thought anyone?

 

[RansomT]

Just saw this was for a dry shot, so the super fat afr (assumingly before spray is used) makes sense. The timing however still doesn't.

I've done a lot of dyno work with E85 and nitrous. While it is more friendly toward nitrous, it isn't the same advantage as boost is to E85. EGTs are somewhat lower, but not nearly as much with boost. The difference between pulling 2 degrees per 50 HP and 4 degrees per 50 HP, doesn't even show up on the dyno. So I like to error on the safe side. The bike also seems happier at 11.3:1 than it does at 12:1 (using gasoline scale). Dyno power doesn't drop off until you are richer than 10.6:1 (big shot), so the same thing about safe.

 

[ogre]

soooooo... lambda (stoich) for 85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline is 9.7:1, and that ignite E90 would want to be slightly more rich.