Gen 1 Ignition Coils Stuck - What tool to remove?

H

HunteRetnuH8778

Registered
Hi all,

I am an owner of a Gen 1 '02 Busa. I have owned the bike for nearly 10 years. I have experienced "bogging" recently, so I decided to start with the obvious and replace the spark plugs.

Anyway, after attempting to remove the coils, I was able to get the centre two out (2 and 3), however, 1 and 4 seem to be the most stubborn. I am concerned off breaking them. Based on the tools I own, the mole grips (with micro fibre cloth) only seem to be damaging the plastic. I don't want to destroy the coils. Which brings me on to my question:

What tool (any tool at all) would be suitable enough to actually grab hold of this things. Ideally something with a handle so that I can get enough leverage to pull. I have heard of the shoelace/rope trick, but I am struggling to get the leverage, considering the poor angles.

Any tips or tricks of the trade I would appreciate.
 
bigoltool said:
www.hayabusa.org

seized ignition coils rk5 | Gen 2 Busa Information

Hi, Went change spark plugs today and found i couldn't remove coils, i managed to get a small amount of rotation via gently using a ring spanner as a lever,but i still can't pull them off,is it safe to use a lever under the electrical connection,i've watched a youtube vid and they should pop off...
www.hayabusa.org www.hayabusa.org
Click to expand...
Yes, that is what I mean. I have already seen that, the rope trick, and it's not really working. Was looking more for tool suggestions or the like.
 
I have run accross this a few times.
I twist them by hand several times, then put a flatblade screwdriver or small prybar under where the wiring harness plug connects, while twisting, rocking, and pulling on the coilpack itself with a gloved hand.
Some of them can be very difficult.
That also likely means there is corrosion in the end of the coilpack as well, where the tip of the sparkplug goes in.
Condensation turns to corrosion over time, and the teeth in the coilpack sieze against the sparkplug's threaded tip.
The corrosion usually cleans out of the coilpacks easily enough.
Make sure you have a good connection to each new sparkplug when you reinstall the coilpacks, because if you can get them to pop up easily by hand, then normal engine vibrations can cause the coilpacks to come loose from the sparkplugs, resulting in intermitent connection and misfires.
The metal teeth inside of the coilpack are what hold the whole thing in the sparkplug holes, because if the teeth dont bite the sparkplug, the tapered rubber of the coilpack housing will pop itself loose from the sparkplug hole.

welcome to the org
 
Last edited:
sixpack577 said:
I have run accross this a few times.
I twist them by hand several times, then put a flatblade screwdriver or small prybar under where the wiring harness plug connects, while twisting, rocking, and pulling on the coilpack itself with a gloved hand.
Some of them can be very difficult.
That also likely means there is corrosion in the end of the coilpack as well, where the tip of the sparkplug goes in.
Condensation turns to corrosion over time, and the teeth in the coilpack sieze against the sparkplug's threaded tip.
The corrosion usually cleans out of the coilpacks easily enough.
Make sure you have a good connection to each new sparkplug when you reinstall the coilpacks, because if you can get them to pop up easily by hand, then normal engine vibrations can cause the coilpacks to come loose from the sparkplugs, resulting in intermitent connection and misfires.
The metal teeth inside of the coilpack are what hold the whole thing in the sparkplug holes, because if the teeth dont bite the sparkplug, the tapered rubber of the coilpack housing will pop itself loose from the sparkplug hole.

welcome to the org
Click to expand...
Thanks for this. By chance, do you happen to know what site pry bar you would use? I am looking to order that this evening and I will try and emulate this, with more WD40 and taking the rubber cover might help a bit. I take it I dnt need to worry about using too much WD40 around there?

You think this would be suitable? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-FAIPRY6-Bar-150MM-6In/dp/B0001IWSK6/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3Q8OSG5DKFTGF&keywords=pry+bar&qid=1698340358&refinements=p_85:20930949031&rnid=20930948031&rps=1&sprefix=pry+bar,aps,169&sr=8-4&th=1

Or maybe this, or do you think that would be too destructive? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amtech-G32...4031&rps=1&sprefix=wrecking+bar,aps,88&sr=8-3

Cheers
 
Last edited:
HunteRetnuH8778 said:
Thanks for this. By chance, do you happen to know what site pry bar you would use? I am looking to order that this evening and I will try and emulate this, with more WD40 and taking the rubber cover might help a bit. I take it I dnt need to worry about using too much WD40 around there?

You think this would be suitable? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-FAIPRY6-Bar-150MM-6In/dp/B0001IWSK6/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3Q8OSG5DKFTGF&keywords=pry+bar&qid=1698340358&refinements=p_85:20930949031&rnid=20930948031&rps=1&sprefix=pry+bar,aps,169&sr=8-4&th=1

Or maybe this, or do you think that would be too destructive? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amtech-G32...4031&rps=1&sprefix=wrecking+bar,aps,88&sr=8-3

Cheers
Click to expand...

The wd-40 can only lubricate the rubber exterior of the coilpack, and the aluminum exterior walls of the cylinder head and valve cover.
If the coilpack turns...that's not the problem.
The coilpack is siezed on the sparkplug, as said above.
Any screwdriver or prybar that fits, works.
I would wrap the prybar in a rag to help prevent damaging anything.
But, I would try a flatblade screwdriver before I ordered a prybar.
 
sixpack577 said:
The wd-40 can only lubricate the rubber exterior of the coilpack, and the aluminum exterior walls of the cylinder head and valve cover.
If the coilpack turns...that's not the problem.
The coilpack is siezed on the sparkplug, as said above.
Any screwdriver or prybar that fits, works.
I would wrap the prybar in a rag to help prevent damaging anything.
But, I would try a flatblade screwdriver before I ordered a prybar.
Click to expand...
Yeah that makes sense cheers for explaining it.

If I am needing to replace coilpacks, am I better of eBaying that or is there a better place to source them? I know at least one needs replacing anyway as the rubber has split on the mid shaft area - on that note, is that rubber part critical? or does it have material underneath.

Anyway, thanks for all the ideas and help, folks.
 
HunteRetnuH8778 said:
Yeah that makes sense cheers for explaining it.

If I am needing to replace coilpacks, am I better of eBaying that or is there a better place to source them? I know at least one needs replacing anyway as the rubber has split on the mid shaft area - on that note, is that rubber part critical? or does it have material underneath.

Anyway, thanks for all the ideas and help, folks.
Click to expand...

The rubber boot helps keep out the moisture that causes the corrosion.
If you have no misfires, the coilpacks are ok.
They are very expensive, and I would just use them.
I would replace all 4 vs individually as well.
I would use oem coilpacks whenever possible.
 
sixpack577 said:
The rubber boot helps keep out the moisture that causes the corrosion.
If you have no misfires, the coilpacks are ok.
They are very expensive, and I would just use them.
I would replace all 4 vs individually as well.
I would use oem coilpacks whenever possible.
Click to expand...
Just as a bit of an update, it looks as though coilpack 4 is starting to come away internally from the outer if I keep pulling it (looked like it started to leave the rubber behind and the metal part didn't look great either from what I could see). Even though I was gentle on coilpack number 1, while leveraging underneath the connector, the connector itself started to break. I did spend a lot of time prepping it with WD40 and turning etc.

I am in 2 minds about whether to keep somehow persevering with removing them and buying the coils, or letting someone with more experience (mechanic) to finish the job.

Additionally, after putting everything back together, the bike still starts and runs (no misfiring). If either of them coils were faulty, would the bike still start?
 
HunteRetnuH8778 said:
Just as a bit of an update, it looks as though coilpack 4 is starting to come away internally from the outer if I keep pulling it (looked like it started to leave the rubber behind and the metal part didn't look great either from what I could see). Even though I was gentle on coilpack number 1, while leveraging underneath the connector, the connector itself started to break. I did spend a lot of time prepping it with WD40 and turning etc.

I am in 2 minds about whether to keep somehow persevering with removing them and buying the coils, or letting someone with more experience (mechanic) to finish the job.

Additionally, after putting everything back together, the bike still starts and runs (no misfiring). If either of them coils were faulty, would the bike still start?
Click to expand...

If it's running ok without misfires, you're fine.
If the sparkplugs were really worn out, then replaced, maybe, Maybe the bike feels better at certain rpms, or you get a Very Small percentage bump in fuel economy.
Given the age and mileage replacing the plugs is just basic maintenance, in the unlikely event one fail on a ride.
And coilpacks, they usually work, and then they don't, one causing an intermitent failure is very rare, aside from a simple bad connection.
As far as the coilpack wanting to seperate from the rubber, lol, that's ok too.
The coilpack is a sealed molded plastic housing with the windings and wiring inside, with the wiring harness connection at the top(which is the only part that you need to be concerned about breaking), and the female connector on the bottom that the sparkplug goes into.
The plastic housing has a silicone boot around it.
That boot helps to keep out dirt and moisture, as well as it's an insulator for the current passing between the coilpacks and sparkplugs, between them and the cylinder head.
That boot just easily pulls off and pushes back on.
The stuck coilpacks usually feel like they're about to break before they come out too.
It sounds like you were a split second from them popping out, but you hesitated due to not wanting to break them, I totally understand that as well, it's just that you really almost had it, lol.
 
sixpack577 said:
If it's running ok without misfires, you're fine.
If the sparkplugs were really worn out, then replaced, maybe, Maybe the bike feels better at certain rpms, or you get a Very Small percentage bump in fuel economy.
Given the age and mileage replacing the plugs is just basic maintenance, in the unlikely event one fail on a ride.
And coilpacks, they usually work, and then they don't, one causing an intermitent failure is very rare, aside from a simple bad connection.
As far as the coilpack wanting to seperate from the rubber, lol, that's ok too.
The coilpack is a sealed molded plastic housing with the windings and wiring inside, with the wiring harness connection at the top(which is the only part that you need to be concerned about breaking), and the female connector on the bottom that the sparkplug goes into.
The plastic housing has a silicone boot around it.
That boot helps to keep out dirt and moisture, as well as it's an insulator for the current passing between the coilpacks and sparkplugs, between them and the cylinder head.
That boot just easily pulls off and pushes back on.
The stuck coilpacks usually feel like they're about to break before they come out too.
It sounds like you were a split second from them popping out, but you hesitated due to not wanting to break them, I totally understand that as well, it's just that you really almost had it, lol.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the scientific explanation of it, that helps understanding how far I can take it. I may give it another try. I have been a ham with such things in the past, and I think I have been a bit too cautious with this task. I will have to avoid the electrical connector while pulling on number 1 this time, though. Which will be a challenge. If I need to grab around the part just below the head (this is sounding weird now) would that be ok? or should I literally only be grabbing around the top part only?

I'm sure I will get there in the end. Thanks for explaining everything so thoroughly anyway.
 
HunteRetnuH8778 said:
Thanks for the scientific explanation of it, that helps understanding how far I can take it. I may give it another try. I have been a ham with such things in the past, and I think I have been a bit too cautious with this task. I will have to avoid the electrical connector while pulling on number 1 this time, though. Which will be a challenge. If I need to grab around the part just below the head (this is sounding weird now) would that be ok? or should I literally only be grabbing around the top part only?

I'm sure I will get there in the end. Thanks for explaining everything so thoroughly anyway.
Click to expand...

You can get pretty rough with the coilpack to pull it out, with the exception of the wiring harness connection on the top(as you have seen).
I use a thin work glove(Mechanix) that gives me better grip on the coilpack, and I twist back and forth, wiggle, pull straight up, and gently pry at the same time.
You can get a flatblade screwdriver or prybar end into where the molded harness plug on the coilpack goes into the solid body of the coilpack itself, that small corner is where to pry, as close to the body as possible, to lessen the chances of breaking the connector.
 
sixpack577 said:
You can get pretty rough with the coilpack to pull it out, with the exception of the wiring harness connection on the top(as you have seen).
I use a thin work glove(Mechanix) that gives me better grip on the coilpack, and I twist back and forth, wiggle, pull straight up, and gently pry at the same time.
You can get a flatblade screwdriver or prybar end into where the molded harness plug on the coilpack goes into the solid body of the coilpack itself, that small corner is where to pry, as close to the body as possible, to lessen the chances of breaking the connector.
Click to expand...
Just a further update on everything (for the sake of maybe helping other people, or learning from it).

I managed to get number 4 out. It didn't look too bad. However, number 1 is next to impossible, at least with the tools I was using. The plug connector housing is near enough snapped, so I was trying my best to get a grip around the main top body as much as I could with mole grips (small pair of). I can get a grip on it, but I am struggling with being able to find good leverage, due to the awkward position of where the coil is and the shoulder of the engine. I can't seem to find a position where I can pull up with all my power. There also isn't an easy way to use a flathead screwdriver. I tried to slightly place it into the rubber boot itself at an angle, and tried to pull up with the mole grips at the same time. With the bike on a side stand and with my just propping the tank up, I'm struggling to find the position I got with the other 3 coils.

I am running out of options, based upon my limited toolkit. Any ideas on a better tool or sized mole grips or the likes that would be more suitable for it. Tried most of the day to get it out, while turning and turning. As you can see, it's not in a pretty state.

Anyway my bad for the multiple messages, I just figured I would try and follow this through right until the end. Additionally, is it normal that the engine smokes? I am guessing this is from all the wd40. I tried my best to not let any fall into the engine.

DSC_0049.JPG
 
Do you mean smoke coming off of the valve cover?
If so, then yes, if it's covered in wd40 and idles for a while, it'll get hot.
As for wd40 making it into the combustion chamber, unless one or more sparkplugs have come loose, and an excessive amount of wd40 was sprayed into the coilpack hole in the cylinder head, and seeped past the sparkplug threads into the combustion chamber, which is a longshot, but possible.
Any other exhaust smoke that was not there prior, could be from
running with one of the 4 coilpacks not connected properly, causing a misfire, and sudden burn of prior unburnt fuel in one or more cylinders.
Do you have any friends that have more grip strength than you?
Seriously, no shame in letting someone else try it.
Otherwise, at this point, based on how that coilpack looks from the attempts to get it out, I think I would just replace it, as you may not get a good connection at it since it's broken.
That frees you up to destroy it to get it out, lol.
This is my 2003 Gsxr1000, and by exterior engine appearance, it is almost the same as the Busa(I removed the PAIR solenoid on the valve cover).
I also fought a couple of these, but they were ok after I cleaned out where they connect to the sparkplugs.
This is the prybar I used on number one cylinder, and with a rag under it to prevent any damage to the painted valve cover.
When you get to the new sparkplugs, check the gap, put a light coat of antisieze on the sparkplug threads, and torque them to spec, which I think is 97 inch pounds, but double check that.

20231028_142125.jpg


20231028_142207.jpg
 
sixpack577 said:
Do you mean smoke coming off of the valve cover?
If so, then yes, if it's covered in wd40 and idles for a while, it'll get hot.
As for wd40 making it into the combustion chamber, unless one or more sparkplugs have come loose, and an excessive amount of wd40 was sprayed into the coilpack hole in the cylinder head, and seeped past the sparkplug threads into the combustion chamber, which is a longshot, but possible.
Any other exhaust smoke that was not there prior, could be from
running with one of the 4 coilpacks not connected properly, causing a misfire, and sudden burn of prior unburnt fuel in one or more cylinders.
Do you have any friends that have more grip strength than you?
Seriously, no shame in letting someone else try it.
Otherwise, at this point, based on how that coilpack looks from the attempts to get it out, I think I would just replace it, as you may not get a good connection at it since it's broken.
That frees you up to destroy it to get it out, lol.
This is my 2003 Gsxr1000, and by exterior engine appearance, it is almost the same as the Busa(I removed the PAIR solenoid on the valve cover).
I also fought a couple of these, but they were ok after I cleaned out where they connect to the sparkplugs.
This is the prybar I used on number one cylinder, and with a rag under it to prevent any damage to the painted valve cover.
When you get to the new sparkplugs, check the gap, put a light coat of antisieze on the sparkplug threads, and torque them to spec, which I think is 97 inch pounds, but double check that.

View attachment 1672107

View attachment 1672108
Click to expand...
Hi there,

I probably should have prefaced it by saying that it definitely isn't a strength issues. I won't go in to too much detail there but I was the best arm wrestler back at school lol and I do handstand pushups on the daily. It is more a case of position, limited space (tank in the way), and probably me not using the correct tools. That pry bar that you have there looks MUCH more suitable than mine, so I think I will try and source that. I won't be able to place it under the connector like you have there though.

Thanks a lot for posting them pictures. I take it that, with me not being able to leverage under the connector, that I will have to try and place it in to where the rubber is? I will try and buy that pry bar that you have there.

As for the torque, I used a TINY amount of copper slip and torqued to spec (11nm) so I doubt anything is getting past them per say, unless some WD40 got past while pulling the plugs. Hopefully it just burns off and won't be a fire hazard.

Cheers for indulging me on this journey lol. In retrospect, I think the plugs not even being touched for at least 10 years, as probably corroded over time, making it a lot more challenging than it needed to be. If the coils came out as easily as 2 and 3 did, I would have been laughing and done with the job within the hour, so this has been a bit of a weird one.

Ordered this pry bar, should hopefully do the trick, looks similar to yours

 
Last edited:
HunteRetnuH8778 said:
Hi there,

I probably should have prefaced it by saying that it definitely isn't a strength issues. I won't go in to too much detail there but I was the best arm wrestler back at school lol and I do handstand pushups on the daily. It is more a case of position, limited space (tank in the way), and probably me not using the correct tools. That pry bar that you have there looks MUCH more suitable than mine, so I think I will try and source that. I won't be able to place it under the connector like you have there though.

Thanks a lot for posting them pictures. I take it that, with me not being able to leverage under the connector, that I will have to try and place it in to where the rubber is? I will try and buy that pry bar that you have there.

As for the torque, I used a TINY amount of copper slip and torqued to spec (11nm) so I doubt anything is getting past them per say, unless some WD40 got past while pulling the plugs. Hopefully it just burns off and won't be a fire hazard.

Cheers for indulging me on this journey lol. In retrospect, I think the plugs not even being touched for at least 10 years, as probably corroded over time, making it a lot more challenging than it needed to be. If the coils came out as easily as 2 and 3 did, I would have been laughing and done with the job within the hour, so this has been a bit of a weird one.

Ordered this pry bar, should hopefully do the trick, looks similar to yours

Click to expand...

Well, for what it's worth, I've worked on alot of bikes over many years...and there's usually something stupid like that, that should be quick and simple...but turns into a huge pain in the azz for no good reason.
We here at the org feel your pain
lmao
Good luck with it
Drill a long decking screw down in it for something for pliers to bite on.
You have to get creative sometimes.
lol
Let us know how it turns out
 
sixpack577 said:
Well, for what it's worth, I've worked on alot of bikes over many years...and there's usually something stupid like that, that should be quick and simple...but turns into a huge pain in the azz for no good reason.
We here at the org feel your pain
lmao
Good luck with it
Drill a long decking screw down in it for something for pliers to bite on.
You have to get creative sometimes.
lol
Let us know how it turns out
Click to expand...
WOW. Anyway, just another update.

This has easily been one of the most unusually difficult and awkward tasks I've ever undertaken on the bike.

So, as I had the molegrips around the head of the coil, it eventually snapped off (top part). Couldn't believe it, and I was considering just taking it to a mechanic and ringing the RAC at that point. I tried hammering in with a flathead to get a good bite to leverage it out, no good. I tried the pry bar on its own, couldn't get a good leverage or bite on it.

After an hour or so of trying with those, I decided to try and use both the flathead screwdriver, and the pry bar opposite each other to pry it out at the same time. It was starting to look like I was maybe getting somewhere, but I wasn't sure. And what felt like a last ditch attempt, I went back with the trusty molegrips on top of the severed head, and it eventually popped out. What a relief.

That's all spark plugs replaced now, it starts (good sign) and I'll fully test it later.

Anyway, cheers for your help everyone on it all. Hopefully someone can learn from it lol.

DSC_0054.JPG


DSC_0055.JPG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Gen 1 hayabusa coil resistance
Replies
6
Views
3,761
rubbersidedown
rubbersidedown
MEBusa
Tool Kit Removal
Replies
6
Views
1,005
riccoh
riccoh
celticBandit
Running Rough.....Ignition Coil?
Replies
5
Views
3,285
Bumblebee
Bumblebee
P
Ignition
Replies
6
Views
1,336
BA BUSA
BA BUSA
RMS2005
? about gen 1 coil packs
2
Replies
28
Views
7,208
andy83
A
Back
Top