Gen1, Stage 1

Dscahill

Registered
I've looked around a bit and haven't really found a definitive answer. I have a GEN1, and I'm looking to install a Stage 1 RCC turbo kit on it, I've seen the stock motor in stock form run up to 8psi. If I swap out the OE pistons for 9:1 turbo pistons with the .080 headgasket, will this help or hurt in the long run? Im not looking to top 300whp just yet, But I am curious if the time/money is worth it.

With 9:1 compression what boost levels can I safely run on 93 octane, and what could I run on race fuel?

Thanks!

-D
 
If you're in there that far, you may as well do the rods as well as that is your other weak point....

Time and money spent up front is worth it in the long run. Numerous people will tell you that.
 
If you just change pistons, yes you lower the compression which give you a bigger buffer zone. However forged pistons are heavier then stock and like to bend/break rods. So it’s kinda an all or nothing kind of scenario.

Another option is just a base spacer to lower the compression and adjustable cam gears to get the timing set back right.

This is a gen 2 but the same can be done with a gen 1. But with stock pistons and rods we’ve made as much as 330whp reliably on stock parts with just a spacer. This bike went 212mph with a 380lb rider.


As long as the tune is fat, a stock motor will do just fine.
 
If you just change pistons, yes you lower the compression which give you a bigger buffer zone. However forged pistons are heavier then stock and like to bend/break rods. So it’s kinda an all or nothing kind of scenario

Hey Rob - stock Gen 1 pistons without rings or pin weigh 7.9 oz, Wossner pistons weigh 7.9 oz. What you are saying is just not correct.
 
Hey Rob - stock Gen 1 pistons without rings or pin weigh 7.9 oz, Wossner pistons weigh 7.9 oz. What you are saying is just not correct.

Last pistons I weighed were old J.E, or MTCs, and they were a few ounces heavier. I assumed Wossner would be the same. Guess not.
 
FYI, putting a spacer plate on a Gen 2 and then adding adjustable cam sprockets and degreeing the cams because deck height has changed is more
expensive than running Wossner turbo pistons with the stock base gasket and running the stock cams on the stock sprockets without degreeing.
It makes more sense to run the Wossners on a Gen 2. Of course, this does not apply to a Gen 1 where the .080 spacer is needed . . .
 
FYI, putting a spacer plate on a Gen 2 and then adding adjustable cam sprockets and degreeing the cams because deck height has changed is more
expensive than running Wossner turbo pistons with the stock base gasket and running the stock cams on the stock sprockets without degreeing.
It makes more sense to run the Wossners on a Gen 2. Of course, this does not apply to a Gen 1 where the .080 spacer is needed . . .

Maybe for how you do it. But for me if we’re doing pistons, then the cylinders get sent out to get sized to the pistons. $1000 for pistons and block plating or $260 for a base spacer and cam gears. Cost effectiveness wise, base spacer is the better option in my shop.

At the end of the day, the rods are still the limiting factor, with a base spacer or pistons in the 320-330hp range. Why spend more to run in to the same hp cealing?

Buuuuuuuuttttttt were talking gen 1s, here so let’s not get carried away. I posted that video simply showing the same principles apply.
 
Twenty years ago you had to "size" the pistons and measure each one. Not today. The manufacturing processes are way different, more exacting. Wossner pistons are "drop in". In both Gen 1s and Gen 2s, a light hone is all that is necessary. As long as the cylinder is straight and undamaged, what you are doing and charging is overkill. The clearance needed is built right into the piston. Don't believe me? Ask John Noonan or Richard at RCC yourself. You probably should stop using JEs and crappy MTC pistons and get with a company that is in this century. While you are at it, you can ask Richard why dropping Wossner pistons with no spacer plate in a Gen 2 is a better idea. In spite of the answers you get, you can still have the same opinion, we all have ours.

And although agree that rods are the limiting factor, the right turbo pistons (not JE!) will always be stronger than the stock pistons. Look at the top ring land of a stock piston and the intake valve cutout on top of that piston. See how close it is? No wonder that is always where they fail when detonation or a lean condition occurs. Wossner turbo pistons for both Gens have more "meat" on top, there is more support for the top ring.
They are balanced, moly coated and laterally gas ported with a tool steel wrist pin and Wossner doesn't charge more for these things like the other manufacturers do. That is why they are better.

And yes, maybe that's how you do it in your shop. Let's not get carried away, lol!
 
:D:DI don’t use mtc or je, just wossner. I took those measurements and came to those conclusions back before wossner came around.

I really don’t care if Christ himself said “just run a hone through and toss in these expensive pistons” I still wouldn’t. I set up a very precise engine and pride myself on that.

If you can’t tune very well I’d see why maybe you’d insist on an aftermarket piston as yes, they indeed are way more forgiving if detonation occurs. Hell I made 460hp on my old bike with stock pistons and just opened up the ring gap more, it’s all in the tuning. The bike in the video with a 380lb rider on the same boost level as the dyno raced all week last year in loring, data logs show WOT for 25 seconds at the 1.5 mile mark. That’s plenty of time for things to get all melty. But they didn’t, and that bike still gets ridden every day since then. Again, stock pistons. All in the tune.

More then one way to skin a cat. I just prefer a more “finely tuned” approach I guess you could say.
 
Being insulting is not the way to support your point, or your approach. You have already shown you don't know what you are talking about. I would leave it there . . .
 
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Well there is indeed certain fundamentals to keep in mind to keep stock Pistons and rods from turning into powder. The same fundamentals I’ve used to keep my stock bottom end ls Engines together while making huge power.

That was ment as a joke, excuse my dry humor.

I’d agree with you if my shop was empty, but seeing as I’m back logged 6 months at least, is probably a little indicator that I might know what I’m talking about. That might just be me though.
 
Ding Ding Ding!!!!

Round 2 Ladies and Gentlemen....:crazy:

I remember when y'all 2 got into a pissing match a few years ago. I think it was over the pricing of the RCC turbo kits. Seems like it's inevitable that the 2 Turbo Busa Sponsors butt heads :banghead:

"Cant we All just Turbo Along?" :beerchug:
 
I dunno... Ive always heard Frank was a brilliant tuner/builder who has many many bikes shipped to him for tuning... everyone says the same exact thing... people run into problems when they don't follow Franks instructions... this has been proven countless times... The attention to detail at powerhouse is surreral... he notices things on my bike that even I don't notice... which is amazing.... There are a lot of tuners chasing huge dyno numbers and are successful.. but there is something to be said for 20-30 years of experience in the same field... you learn things...
 
BUILD THE DAMN MOTOR... whole thing ... with a billet crank... take out a second mortgage and quit being so cheap.
 
I dunno... Ive always heard Frank was a brilliant tuner/builder who has many many bikes shipped to him for tuning... everyone says the same exact thing... people run into problems when they don't follow Franks instructions... this has been proven countless times... The attention to detail at powerhouse is surreral... he notices things on my bike that even I don't notice... which is amazing.... There are a lot of tuners chasing huge dyno numbers and are successful.. but there is something to be said for 20-30 years of experience in the same field... you learn things...
You getting your bike sorted?
 
As a gen 1 owner and a stage 1 owner, I did not do any engine mods. My motor lasted about 8 months. I didn't listen to the experienced guys here. Please do. Build a motor. Put your stage one in stock for now and the 7lb spring with the fmu and have it tuned to 11.1ish. Enjoy. It wont be enough for you in time. So, while you build an engine and continue to drive your bike, if something happens, you have the definitive answer to replace it. Lest you krunk your stock motor and can afford to quickly buy the parts needed for the build. Build a motor. Stick with what you have in the mean time, a 230 or 240/250hp bike is fun. But the end state is you wanting more. From the motor build to the intercooler to the holley efi, you always want more. Welcome to debt and lust. And inevitably someone will come on here and tell me I'm full of poop. I'm ok with that.
 
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