Heat pump question

[mr8ball]

Hey all, I hope everyone's new year is going well. Trying to find out some info on a heat pump. Being it has got down to 10 degree and colder around here my heat pump runs all the time. 5 days non stop. I was told by a guy that installs them to just turn my emergency heat on and not run the heat pump at all. He said it would not make that much difference in the electric bill. We have a 1200 SQ Ft house and our last bill was $190.00 for 37 days. In the summer our bill was never over 60 bucks at it hottest point. When we run the heat pump now it gets so hot at night we can not sleep. I have shut off the vent in our bedroom and it does not help. The heat pump guy said he felt the emeg. heat strips were sticking causing the trouble. Since I turned the emeg. heat on that problem has gotten better. We have had trouble with this heat pump from the time we bought the house. We got a home owners insurance policy when we bought the house and have had their people out here to work on it 4 times so far. Yea its one of them deals. Just patch it and move on.

Anyway am I doing the right thing by not running the HP and running the emeg heat? Thanks in advance

 

[sportbikeryder]

The heatpump isn't going to do much at 10F.
If it is too hot, why not just turn the heat off?

It sounds like your thermostat is not being a thermostat and is just an on/off switch. Either that, of you have some sort of control that just turns the electric elements on and leaves them on.

Either way, if the room (where the thermostat is) is getting hotter than the setpoint, something is wrong with the control system. Either the thermostat itself or the control box at teh unit that turns the heating system on and off.

 

[dadofthree]

heat pumps don't work well below 38 degrees. I'm sure by 10 degrees the heat strips are in full swing. Emergency heat is expensive at the end of the month. You need your system replaced or serviced or you need to close the open window ( insulate ).

Emergency heat typically runs the blower fan at a reduced speed and turns all your heat strips on.

You really need to get someone to look at your system. Lots of tax breaks for doing this stuff. Hope that helps.

 

[mr8ball]

Thanks guys for the info. The thermostat is in the hall across from the air return. I ask if it was in the right place and was told yes. I have had these people out here 4 times looking at it since we bought the house 6 months ago. The deal is we got a home warranty with First American Home Warranty when we bought the house and we are at the mercy of who they want to work on it. Back in the summer the AC froze up and they came out and put freon in it and replaced the fan relay switch in it. Then when it started to get cold it locked up again and they let the freon out for some reason. On the 3rd visit they replacer the thermostat and the 4th time they had to replace the defrost board. I have complained about it getting so hot every time since it got cold. Seems all they want to do is patch it and run. I was told the only way the unit would be replace it is if the compressor goes out. Then they only replace the outside unit and not the air handler. I was told by First American that in Va it is not required to replace both. I have a 10 Seer unit in my house and they don't make it anymore. Then Sunday I was talking to another installer and he said they can not change one with out changing the other. They can not mix a 10 seer with a 13 seer and 13 is the lowest they make now. I have another call to First America and hope to here from them tomorrow. I put the thermostat back on regular heat. I went and bought a thermometer and right now it reads 3 degree hotter in our bed room then the thermostat with the vent closed. Anyway sorry for the rant and thanks again for the info.

 

[dadofthree]

Not a good advertisement for the warranty company. Sounds like you need a unit. The thermostat should be placed near the return. Return filter clean ?

Yep , if you close a bedroom door it will tend to get warmer inside that room because the heating system is pumping hot air into that room and it's not circulating throughout the entire structure. Bedrooms are typically next to the unit and the air remains warmer the closer you are to the unit because of temp losses in the duct system.

 

[lil charlie]

how old is the house? Or better yet, what is the date stamp on your heat pump?

Roberts correct, heat pumps are very ineffective below 40 degrees. What type of emergency heat do you have?

 

[lil charlie]

FYI, home warranty's are not going to replace your entire system. They will patch it back together and replace only what goes bad. SEER 10 is pretty outdated, even 13 is pretty low. If you replace the entire system you should be looking at 15+. Did you have a home inspection preformed prior to purchase, and did they make any notes about the heat pump?

 

[E Zurcher]

I would look at upgrading the whole system. When I moved into my house in Louisiana, our heat pump had been damaged by the dogs the previous owner had. He let them Pee on it and the bottom 1/3 of the condenser fins were rotted out. The AC company estimated it was running like a seer 6. We replaced it with a seer 13 unit and our bill was cut in half. Not such a big deal in the winter but in the summer in Shreveport it was huge. This was in 1999 so it was a good unit at the time. The money we saved on our monthly bill made the payment for the unit and it worked perfectly. You may even be able to offset the cost with tax credits for energy efficiency. Also make sure you have a digital programmable thermostat, they work so much better. They even make some with remote sensors so you can average out hot/cold parts of your house.

 

[mr8ball]

FYI, home warranty's are not going to replace your entire system. They will patch it back together and replace only what goes bad. SEER 10 is pretty outdated, even 13 is pretty low. If you replace the entire system you should be looking at 15+. Did you have a home inspection preformed prior to purchase, and did they make any notes about the heat pump?

The house was built in 1996 and the heat pump is stamped that as well. All new filters. We did have an inspection and notes were made but here after you buy it it's yours and that is why we went with the warranty. We thought the warranty would cover any issues ever a replacement if needed. It is advertised that way anyway. The thermostat new and is digital but not programmable. We keep all of our door's open at night and last night we had the thermostat on 67 and when I woke up about 4AM the thermometer was reading 72 in our bedroom with the vent closed. The heat pump was still running. It is crazy how this thing works. To get the people to come back and look at it again I have to pay another 60 bucks for a service call for something that I have complained about every time. Its a joke the how these people work. Of course they did not call me back today . I will call them back tomorrow and am going to go slam off if they don't do something.

E Zurcher, Any suggestions on what the best energy efficiency units are. Looks like we are heading in the route. Our house is 3 bed room 2 bath. Its only 1200 Sq Ft and all on one level. Thanks again for all the info and ideas

 

[dadofthree]

18 year old heat pump. You probably need a unit.

 

[E Zurcher]

The house was built in 1996 and the heat pump is stamped that as well. All new filters. We did have an inspection and notes were made but here after you buy it it's yours and that is why we went with the warranty. We thought the warranty would cover any issues ever a replacement if needed. It is advertised that way anyway. The thermostat new and is digital but not programmable. We keep all of our door's open at night and last night we had the thermostat on 67 and when I woke up about 4AM the thermometer was reading 72 in our bedroom with the vent closed. The heat pump was still running. It is crazy how this thing works. To get the people to come back and look at it again I have to pay another 60 bucks for a service call for something that I have complained about every time. Its a joke the how these people work. Of course they did not call me back today . I will call them back tomorrow and am going to go slam off if they don't do something.

E Zurcher, Any suggestions on what the best energy efficiency units are. Looks like we are heading in the route. Our house is 3 bed room 2 bath. Its only 1200 Sq Ft and all on one level. Thanks again for all the info and ideas

That was many years ago back when I was a TSgt. My buddy just bought a solar assisted unit to retrofit the swamp cooler system he had and it was 25K before the tax credits. That is the extreme though. I'm sure there is an HVAC knowledgeable person on this board that can give you some good advice. I think my outside and inside unit cost a total of 2500 which we financed and paid off when we sold the house which was similar in size to yours.

I also don't know what size unit you have. It's possible it's oversized for your house. Best thing is to get a good contractor out there to look at it.

 

[Busalude]

It sounds to me like the techs servicing your equipment are idiots..... I've found there are very few true techs out there. A lot of guys don't know how to troubleshoot equipment properly. What's the model of your air handler (inside unit) and your condenser (outside unit with compressor) most heat pumps will not run below 35 degrees. Sound like you might have a bad or improperly mounted ambient temp sensor if it's equipped. Your heat strips should engage in low ambient temps. It's possible the contactor for the heat strips is sticking causing the heat to stay on longer than it's supposed to. However generally that will be reflected on the actual temp readout on the Thermostat. Shoot me the info on the units and I'll go through the schematics and get back to you with a better diagnosis.

 

[VIPER]

OK first heat pump do not work under 25 degrees at all. Second if your ac is freezing up they need to clean the damn A coil inside the furnace. I would bet being your house was built in 96 it has never been done. Did the previous owner or do you have animals? That is the number one reason ac units freeze....pet hair kills a coils. The thermostat should never be located next to any return. That is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. It should be located in the most central part of the house. Not in a kitchen either. If you have a fireplace not in that room either. House warranties are a joke and a huge waste of money. I would trash the heat pump and put a good eff furnace and ac in the joint. If you have that old of stuff meaning 10 seer it has to all be replaced. Don't buy anything under 90% eff or your wasting money. The a coil has to be sized and replaced to the outside ac unit. Make sure they replace it with new. Make sure it is clean. Then they can add or remove Freon accordingly.

 

[05 Busa LE]

I had the same problem with a home warranty company with my thermostat, and I finally decided that I spent more on two, wasted visits than the cost of a new, programmable digital thermometer. So, I replaced it myself almost a decade ago, and it's still working fine. Eventually, there was a class-action lawsuit against my home warranty company because of their practices. Because you're done with the warranty company, think about contacting the Attorney General in your state so that they can investigate to determine what was required by your contract, and actually provided by the company.

 

[mr8ball]

Thanks again guys for all the info. I got in touch with someone at the warranty place and they are going to send the tech's out free of charge. The guy working on it said he would have to come and stay a couple of hrs to really see what is going on. Of course its not really that cold right now so we will see. He said something about moving the thermostat which seems like a good idea to me.

VIPERWHITEBUSA Yes the people we got the house from had 2 big dogs and a cat. The filters were really bad when we moved in. We have a Jack Russell but I change the filter every 30 days.

Busalude It is a Rudd 10 Seer unit. Air handler and outside unit. I took a photo of the info on both. Hope you can make them out. I really appreciate you offering to help and the world is a better place with people like you in it. Thanks again to all for the info. I am going to junk this thing but will let the insurance do all they can until I can get the money together to replace it.

 

[Turbo-Torch]

If they're sending the same HACKS, you're problems won't go away.

Did you see the outside condenser running at 10°? The system is supposed to AUTOMATICALLY go to EM heat (gas or electric) at a preset temperature...usually 40°. The control is either an old fashioned thermostat in the condenser or controlled by your digital thermostat's internal programming which will have an outdoor sensor attached to it.
At 10° the compressor is destroying itself. There ARE heat pumps that are very efficient to -15°F but I guarantee yours is not one of them.

A low system charge is the most common cause of icing up during A/C operation. You said they topped off the refrigerant....did they bother to find the leak and repair it? Why did they need to remove refrigerant? Not really low on charge and it was a clogged piston or flaky TXV? Lack of airflow from a dirty evaporator? A real tech would diagnose it in 15 minutes.

You CAN replace the condenser and keep the evaporator (or vise versa). Dry nitrogen charged R22 condensers are still available, you just won't get the 13 seer rating. Considering the age of the system and the cost of R22 vs. 410a, it would be a stupid half-ass decision. Remember when R12 disappeared? Also replacing the condenser won't do a bit of good if the problem is in the controls or air handler.

 

[E Zurcher]

Like I said earlier,

If you can afford it, get a good contractor and replace the whole system instead of cobbling up an ancient SEER 10 unit. Finance it and your savings will likely outstrip the finance cost. Additionally, you will have a warranty, be helping out the environmnet and be more comfortable in the long run. SEER ratings go from 13-21, the higher the SEER the higher the initial cost but you can recoup that if you stay in the house longer. It all depends on your budget verses your return on investment.

 

[Busalude]

Ill research it tonight and get back to you. I agree with turbo torch. There is no reason a good tech would need to hang around. These guys definitely have their head stuck up somewhere......

 

[Busalude]

Ok so you have an ambient control. Could be a couple things.. Ambient temp sensor is bad or the controller itself that's why heat pump continues to run. Or you have the wrong thermostat. Need to make sure you have the correct thermostat for your application. There are many different types. You also have a test mode that the tech can put it in to go through all ops no need to hang around. Just need to jump the two terminals together to initiate test mode on the control board. As for the too hot issue. It's probably because the heat pump I live in Richmond area. If they can't figure it out. I could try to make it out you're way. It's only about an hour on the new Busa! sorry it took so long to get back to you.

 

[mr8ball]

Hey bud thanks so much. I was in Richmond last weekend playing pool. They said they were coming today to check it out so I will suggest they check all of this. Last night or ran most of the night even when the said it was 67 and we had it sit on 67 it was still running for hrs. Maybe with all this info they can fix it right until I can replace it. Thanks again for all the help. I will keep you posted