Helmetless Motorcyclist Dies During Anti-Helmet Protest

[Tufbusa]

Linky!

Helmet laws are a "Hot Button" ticket these days nation wide.

What say you?

 

[cheferman65]

I say all the time for me and whom ever rides as my passenger. Too many bugs, road debris, rain and chances for a get off. Besides I need one to keep my ear plugs in. Just never bought into the whole freedom-choice discussion, I cannot validate one reason I wouldn't wear one. Always have always will.

Never sweat the petty things. 58

 

[brpo]

I don't like helmet laws any more than seatbelt laws. There is no good reason for forgoing either. But, I don't think the government should abridge people's rights to be stupid. I feel differently about child laws though, stupid adults shouldn't be able to unnecessarily endanger young ones.

 

[fallenarch]

I think not wearing a helmet is a selfish pick thing to do. When you are laying there all busted up the docs are going to do whatever they have to to fix you up - only to find out you can't pay for it. Then if you can pay for it or have insurance all our premiums go up because you are a lame veggie for the rest of your life. This is as stupid as a football player saying he doesn't want to wear a helmet and it's his right. The worse thing is it hurts all of motorcycling as it promotes an irresponsible impression about the sport.

If you're not smart enough to protect yourself, it is not fair to leave the cleanup responsibility to the society you want your freedom from. I think if you ride without a helmet and are hurt your health insurance should be discontinued unless you buy an expensive rider to cover "stupid actions". Also, you should have to wear a body tag already filled out when you ride.

Do I feel strongly about this, yup.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

No helmet fine its your choice but you should have to sign a waiver relieving ems from treating any head injuries related to it. Nor should any dr have to treat head injuries unless they are paid for up front. With risks comes responsibility and I don't feel like paying for your stupidity. As fallenarch says, let em ride free but I don't want to have to pay the bill.

 

[GNBRETT]

I think not wearing a helmet is a selfish pick thing to do. When you are laying there all busted up the docs are going to do whatever they have to to fix you up - only to find out you can't pay for it. Then if you can pay for it or have insurance all our premiums go up because you are a lame veggie for the rest of your life. This is as stupid as a football player saying he doesn't want to wear a helmet and it's his right. The worse thing is it hurts all of motorcycling as it promotes an irresponsible impression about the sport.

If you're not smart enough to protect yourself, it is not fair to leave the cleanup responsibility to the society you want your freedom from. I think if you ride without a helmet and are hurt your health insurance should be discontinued unless you buy an expensive rider to cover "stupid actions". Also, you should have to wear a body tag already filled out when you ride.

Do I feel strongly about this, yup.

I dont disagree with that but lets face it our heath insurance premiums go up from cigarettes and alcohol not head injury accidents from motorcycle riders not wearing helmets.

sure, those not wearing helmets cost insurance companies money each year as a result but in reality they dont even make a dent as far as insurance premiums go.

I always wear my helmet and my seatbelt but its simply because I dont want my brains to leak out of my head if I happen to crash. if were gonna push the argument concerning health insurance premiums then we have to address the real health insurance premium issues before motorcycle helmets can even be considered. smoking and drinking are both choices and preventable just like wearing a helmet will prevent the majority of fatal MC accidents or atleast the majority that have struck their head.

 

[GNBRETT]

No helmet fine its your choice but you should have to sign a waiver relieving ems from treating any head injuries related to it. Nor should any dr have to treat head injuries unless they are paid for up front. With risks comes responsibility and I don't feel like paying for your stupidity. As fallenarch says, let em ride free but I don't want to have to pay the bill.

would you be willing to sign a waiver that prohibits insurance companies from paying for any treatment you might recieve in ur lifetime as a result of smoking? such as cancer, heart disease, stroke, etc....

cigarette smoking is responsible for an estimated 438,000 deaths a year, making it the leading preventable cause of death in the United States. about 4,500 die on motorcycles each year and not all of those are a result of not wearing a helmet. in fact, id be surprised if it was even half or 3/4 of that number.

 

[raydog]

Oh what a subject! I could write a book about my experiences on this subject but here's just one....after I used a clipboard to pick up the brains of a 17 year old that was showing off at a high school party doing wheelies in the street on his friend's RD400, I then had to interview all wittnesses THEN personally make the death notification to his parents. Don't tell me about "compromised personal freedom" because of helmet laws. Nobody wants more freedom than me but the data doesn't lie....decades of proof that helmets save lives. And you want medical costs to improve? Look at the costs of emergency care and life sustinance on helmetless motorcycle TBI victims(insured AND uninsured). We pay for it and that's fact. This is one opinion I have that is inflexible. Raydog

 

[fallenarch]

I dont disagree with that but lets face it our heath insurance premiums go up from cigarettes and alcohol not head injury accidents from motorcycle riders not wearing helmets.

sure, those not wearing helmets cost insurance companies money each year as a result but in reality they dont even make a dent as far as insurance premiums go.

I always wear my helmet and my seatbelt but its simply because I dont want my brains to leak out of my head if I happen to crash. if were gonna push the argument concerning health insurance premiums then we have to address the real health insurance premium issues before motorcycle helmets can even be considered. smoking and drinking are both choices and preventable just like wearing a helmet will prevent the majority of fatal MC accidents.

You are mixing issues. Smoking, drinking, drugs, even over-eating all have their role in healthcare costs and rightly so. But we are talking about a specific issue here and so the fact that it may negatively affect health care costs is valid even if it is not the main offender.

 

[raydog]

I dont disagree with that but lets face it our heath insurance premiums go up from cigarettes and alcohol not head injury accidents from motorcycle riders not wearing helmets.

sure, those not wearing helmets cost insurance companies money each year as a result but in reality they dont even make a dent as far as insurance premiums go.

I always wear my helmet and my seatbelt but its simply because I dont want my brains to leak out of my head if I happen to crash. if were gonna push the argument concerning health insurance premiums then we have to address the real health insurance premium issues before motorcycle helmets can even be considered. smoking and drinking are both choices and preventable just like wearing a helmet will prevent the majority of fatal MC accidents.

I don't know how you arrive at your conclusions but they couldn't farther away from mine. The under the radar criteria used to determine premium charges coming out of insurance companies are confidential so the "don't even make a dent" argument doesn't fly with me. We simply don't have to address "other things" before we enforce helmet laws in this Country to save both lives and money, the data bears this out everywhere one looks.

 

[GNBRETT]

You are mixing issues. Smoking, drinking, drugs, even over-eating all have their role in healthcare costs and rightly so. But we are talking about a specific issue here and so the fact that it may negatively affect health care costs is valid even if it is not the main offender.

well if 4,500 ppl die each year from motorcycle accidents and lets say half die as a result of not wearing their helmet then that would mean 2,250 ppl would cost insurance companies money as a result of not wearing their helmet.

that would not even scratch the surface in health insurance care costs and no ones premiums are going up as a result of 2,250 ppl receiving medical treatment that could have been prevented.

tragic and preventable deaths? yes. health insurance preimiums going up for everyone? not even close. I dont disagree that everyone should wear a helmet but I do disagree with making it madatory based on the argument that insurance premiums go up as a result. other then that argument then what is the argument to ensure ppl wear a helmet? is the argument cause the government wants to insure ones safety? if thats the case then we have to look at real issues that address our safety such as smoking and drinking. otherwise, there is no argument.

I think there is too much government control as it is and if ppl dont want to wear their seatbelts or helmets thats their right cause the argument against inflicting injury as a result and therefore ppl having to pay for their injuries is not mixing issues at all. they all point to the same issue which is money!

if were gonna remove the health issue from the equation then all thats left is money. and if its health or safety were talking about then 2,250 ppl hardly makes a dent in anything considering we have 315 million ppl in this country.

and not to mention when someone dies as a result of a head injury there is no cost to the insurance company cause the person is now dead. the majority of those who die in MC accidents as a result of a head injury from not wearing a helmet die instantly vs. prolonged health care treatment like one recieves from smoking or drinking so the argument to healthcare costs just doesnt add up.

 

[fallenarch]

well if 4,500 ppl die each year from motorcycle accidents and lets say half die as a result of not wearing their helmet then that would mean 2,250 ppl would cost insurance companies money as a result of not wearing their helmet.

that would not even scratch the surface in health insurance care costs and no ones premiums are going up as a result of 2,250 ppl receiving medical treatment that could have been prevented.

tragic and preventable deaths? yes. health insurance preimiums going up for everyone? not even close. I dont disagree that everyone should wear a helmet but I do disagree with making it madatory based on the argument that insurance premiums go up as a result. other then that argument then what is the argument to ensure ppl wear a helmet? is the argument cause the government wants to insure ones safety? if thats the case then we have to look at real issues that address our safety such as smoking and drinking. otherwise, there is no argument.

I think there is too much government control as it is and if ppl dont want to wear their seatbelts or helmets thats their right cause the argument against inflicting injury as a result and therefore ppl having to pay for their injuries is not mixing issues at all. they all point to the same issue which is money!

if were gonna remove the health issue from the equation then all thats left is money. and if its health or safety were talking about then 2,250 ppl hardly makes a dent in anything considering we have 315 million ppl in this country.

and not to mention when someone dies as a result of a head injury there is no cost to the insurance company cause the person is now dead. the majority of those who die in MC accidents as a result of a head injury from not wearing a helmet die instantly vs. prolonged health care treatment like one recieves from smoking or drinking so the argument to healthcare costs just doesnt add up.

Fair enough. I think we can agree that not wearing a helmet has more to do with being selfish than being free.

 

[BoostCreep]

I can't bring myself to care... I wear a full faced helmet, jacket, gloves, pants and boots whenever I ride. If you want to know why then ride without it for yourself.

 

[1busa]

For me I still find it soo confusing?? How can you get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt while enclosed in a vehicle with airbags, shatter proof glass, and impact resistant bumpers but its ok to ride on a motorcycle without any protection whatsoever if you choose to? Can somebody explain how its freedom of choice on 2 wheels but not 4?

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

Ya know, I use to see this as pretty black and white. However, these days I see it in shades of grey.

To be clear, I'm ATGATT. I wear more on the street than some rider wear on the track and I don't shed items due to heat. In addition to the protection that a helmet offers in the event of an accident, I also REALLY like the protection a helmet offers from the elements (rain, wind, sun, cold), bugs and debris. I also happen to think that a nice full face helmet looks awesome and many are works of art. In addition, IMHO, it's selfish to not take all possible precautions when riding - in the event that an accident occurs, your family and friends will surely appreciate or be grief-stricken by your choice to wear or not wear a helmet. If ya wanna be there for your people, wearing a helmet is the least you can do when you ride.

I also believe that we all should be free to make our own choice on the matter. However, the choice to ride without a helmet should end where my wallet begins. In other words, I don't wanna pay for someone else's choice to forgo such a simple and completely available and comparatively cheap "ounce of prevention".

That said, I see the other side of the coin as well. That side makes the point that if we legislate the choice of helmet use, why should we not legislate the choice of motorcycle use? It's a stones throw or leap depending on your logic, but there is definitely a relationship there. Since we don't legislate the latter, I'm not sure that we can justify legislation of the former.

Helmet use is only an issue because motorcycle use is not. Food for thought. ???

All THAT said, I hope everybody who rides will choose, for themselves and their loved ones, to go with ATGATT.

Ride, but ride smart and ride safe!

 

[fallenarch]

The question of whether or not to wear a helmet is not IMHO a "creeping legislation" sort of issue. I think riding a motorcycle is seen as a risky sort of thing to do both by the general public and the government. However the helmet is a minimal level of care. The truth is it's not really all that risky unless you the rider are the risk. Sure there are the all too often run ins with the distracted left on red mini-van, but my agent told me if you are over 30, married, own a house, don't ride to work everyday, don't race, and limit time out riding at night you are safer than many people who ski or play physical sports.

I think as long as motorcycles stay in the realm of the Type-A personality group, the government isn't going to come after us. The real danger is if energy prices pushes motorcycling into the general public realm. Then we are going to see all kinds of controls that will ruin the sport trying to make motorcycling fool-proof. As long as it's partly crazy people taking a slightly higher risk than most then I think they will basically leave it alone, unless the bikes get too crazy fast (i.e. the 189 mph rule). I am more worried about laws on ABS than helmets. Even though I am pro-ABS I do see that as a slippery slope lesgislative issue. ABS laws are trying to legislate control of the bike and where do you stop with that (yes, I know I have argued another position on this one)? Helmet laws are simply saying accidents happen, at least use minimal protection.


The government is really going to come down on scooters though. Just wait. More and more people are buying them and drive them like crazy. The other day I was cruising along at 50 mph and a scooter pulled right up beside me! If motorcycle guys rode like scooter guys do they would ban them entirely!

 

[880jedi]

I can't figure why the folks who have had their bell rung, still won't wear a helmet.

 

[Stilslo]

After moving down to florida I can't believe the amount of people that ride around with no helmet, and drink and ride but that's a different matter. I am definitely in the minority riding around here with helmet, boots, gloves, and jacket. Never mind the obvious safety issue of not wearing a helmet, but those bugs gotta sting.

 

[customizedcreationz]

Ohhh, ouch this is a subject that interjects lots of sides and lots of personal opinions. Kinda like religion and politics.

But lets back up for a minute for all of us, helmet or no helmet. Have you ridden over 70 mph in your car or bike? If so your just increased the insurance rates for us all......... now lets not get that subject intertwined with this one.

I have ridden without one from my house to my shop. 6 miles, on side roads. I live in a more desolate almost country type atmosphere. A threat for me is a deer jumping in the road on more occasions then someone running me over. I see no reason to go helmetless to be honest. I have a couple half helmets for occasions. But I almost always wear a full face. Half helmets raise up at highway speeds and put undo stress on your chin. Full faces don't.

So anyways.... Michigan because a helmetless state this year. 95% of the helmetless people I see are hardley wanna be's or "bad ass" weekend warriors on cruisers. Almost all sport bikes I see have helmets. So I think its a social cosmetic thing. The full face clashes with my bad ass attitude and apparel type of mentality. The half , well you can still look kinda bad ass with one one. But no helmet, holy crap, call the police, we have a hells angel in town.....

My question to these helmetless riders is, "Have you ever gotten hit in the face by a June bug at 60 mph ?".... nuff said.

Todd

 

[skydivr]

Why are we even having this debate? Why are we even having this debate in our country? STFU and put a dang helmet on. If you have to wear a seat belt, what is the big deal?

The real problem is that we've become so narcissistic and self centered that we thing what WE want individually is the most important thing, and everyone else should agree.