Honing and gapping question

[busanostra]

I am putting back my gen 1 block together -- all in stock form. Can I hone the block using the 3 stones wrap it with Scothbrite pads with 320 grits ?
Do I need to gap the ring even if I am just only using the suzuki stock rings?

Thank you

 

[sixpack577]

Always check the ring end-gap, always!
And always use a ring grinder, never a file, as you will never get the edge square othewise.
Also edge as in one side only, only file one end, not both.
Ring gaps tend to run on the small end of tolerance so that they can be filed larger if need be.
If the gap is too small, ring ends can contact from heat expansion, causing stress that can break a ring, and in turn, cause engine failure.
It's free to do, and expensive if it's wrong.

Honing by hand is also a bad idea, especially with stones.
Not only is it really easy to damage something, but the honing is not consistent. As there is no way that you can replicate the stroke speed, depth, and angle like a machine can, and essentially you put waves into smooth cylinder walls.

 

[busanostra]

What is the stock ring end gap ?

How about just use scothbrite ?? Im not taking any nikasil coat out just taking the glaze out.

 

[60+ Busa Rider]

Always check the ring end-gap, always!
And always use a ring grinder, never a file, as you will never get the edge square othewise.
Also edge as in one side only, only file one end, not both.
Ring gaps tend to run on the small end of tolerance so that they can be filed larger if need be.
If the gap is too small, ring ends can contact from heat expansion, causing stress that can break a ring, and in turn, cause engine failure.
It's free to do, and expensive if it's wrong.

Honing by hand is also a bad idea, especially with stones.
Not only is it really easy to damage something, but the honing is not consistent. As there is no way that you can replicate the stroke speed, depth, and angle like a machine can, and essentially you put waves into smooth cylinder walls.

I have machined and built 100’s of automotive engines (not motorcycle’s), Sixpack’s advice is 100% correct. If you’re doing a low budget build and can’t afford a machine shop hand honing with stones will probably run fine but if the hone job isn’t right and the rings don’t fit the bore or seal well you stand the possibility of some blow by or poor oil control. If you’re looking to build a quality engine I recommend following Sixpack’s advice. Going deeper into the subject if the bore is checked with a dial bore gauge and has a slight taper or egg shape a honing machine can hone the cylinder back straight then you can use an oversize ring set or in the machine shop world they’re called a fileable set and the rings can be file fit to each cylinder, then you can know you will have minimal leak down and great oil control and make good power. I hone with a Rottler machine but there’s plenty of good honing machine brands.

 

[turbobusa2000]

I am putting back my gen 1 block together -- all in stock form. Can I hone the block using the 3 stones wrap it with Scothbrite pads with 320 grits ?
Do I need to gap the ring even if I am just only using the suzuki stock rings?

Thank you

You won’t even scratch the silicone nitride coating that is on the cylinder walls. There’s a reason they use diamond hones.

 

[busanostra]

Always check the ring end-gap, always!
And always use a ring grinder, never a file, as you will never get the edge square othewise.
Also edge as in one side only, only file one end, not both.
Ring gaps tend to run on the small end of tolerance so that they can be filed larger if need be.
If the gap is too small, ring ends can contact from heat expansion, causing stress that can break a ring, and in turn, cause engine failure.
It's free to do, and expensive if it's wrong.

Honing by hand is also a bad idea, especially with stones.
Not only is it really easy to damage something, but the honing is not consistent. As there is no way that you can replicate the stroke speed, depth, and angle like a machine can, and essentially you put waves into smooth cylinder walls.

Thank you for helping me. I have another question on piston gap for stock 1st gen. Right now its .006 - do I need to file the top ring to say .012 and .014 to the 2nd ring? Looking at the service book, it says the service limit gap of the 1st and 2nd is .020 . Right now its .006 which I think too tight and must be grinded to say .012 ?
Am i right ?? Thank you

Oh I bought a ring grinder.

 

[sixpack577]

Thank you for helping me. I have another question on piston gap for stock 1st gen. Right now its .006 - do I need to file the top ring to say .012 and .014 to the 2nd ring? Looking at the service book, it says the service limit gap of the 1st and 2nd is .020 . Right now its .006 which I think too tight and must be grinded to say .012 ?
Am i right ?? Thank you

Oh I bought a ring grinder.

Does it not list the minimum spec?
Only the .020" max?

Also, go slow with the ring grinder, it's easy to take too much off quickly.

 

[sixpack577]

Make sure the individual ring end gaps are not in alignment with each other either.
The manual should show a pattern with all 3 about 30° apart.

 

[busanostra]

Does it not list the minimum spec?
Only the .020" max?

Also, go slow with the ring grinder, it's easy to take too much off quickly.

I did not see other value except. 020" service limit

 

[mjl3truck]

https://www.woessner-kolben.de/fileadmin/Downloads/Wossner_Piston_Installation_Instructions_and_ring_end_gap.pdf

I'd just use these recommendations.
It'd put you about .012 top and .015 2nd.
IMO I would go just a touch over in case you decided to throw some MR12 at it, advance the timing, etc. to see what it'd do.
You don't give up that much as far as wear life on the rings, blow-by and hp by being a touch over but the penalty for being tight and having the rings ends butt is pretty severe.

 

[busanostra]

https://www.woessner-kolben.de/fileadmin/Downloads/Wossner_Piston_Installation_Instructions_and_ring_end_gap.pdf

I'd just use these recommendations.
It'd put you about .012 top and .015 2nd.
IMO I would go just a touch over in case you decided to throw some MR12 at it, advance the timing, etc. to see what it'd do.
You don't give up that much as far as wear life on the rings, blow-by and hp by being a touch over but the penalty for being tight and having the rings ends butt is pretty severe.

Thank you!
I will do the same .012 top & .015 2nd

 

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