How far can you lean?

[fallenarch]

At my track day one of the Team Promotion coaches named Omar (awesome dude BTW) did a demonstration that sort of changed my understanding of motorcycle tires and leaning. He grabbed a tire and put it on the floor and tried to push it. The tire would not move. The he leaned on it with all his weight and it would not move. I have seen people get way over in the lean but that just really was an Epiphany for me. In the second picture the lean on the tire is well past 65 degrees. I'm 300 lbs, not near what a Busa can put on these babies but it's a little closer than I like to admit!

 

[piratediverjefff]

 

[nosbig]

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

Yep, they'll lean right over. One thing to mention in addition to just the weight of the bike is the 180 or so ponies trying to spool that thing up while she's leaned over.

 

[dadofthree]

 

[piratediverjefff]

At my track day one of the Team Promotion coaches named Omar (awesome dude BTW) did a demonstration that sort of changed my understanding of motorcycle tires and leaning. He grabbed a tire and put it on the floor and tried to push it. The tire would not move. The he leaned on it with all his weight and it would not move. I have seen people get way over in the lean but that just really was an Epiphany for me. In the second picture the lean on the tire is well past 65 degrees. I'm 300 lbs, not near what a Busa can put on these babies but it's a little closer than I like to admit!

Not to be a wise ass Arch,it appears not only are you puttin' a lot of stress on that tire...but also the asphalt it's leanin' on.

(I had to do it Arch,too good to pass up!)

 

[Busashot]

I've had mine leaned over enough to scrap the fairing. Problem I always had was after just a few hard laps the tire starts to lose bite because of heat. You start to lose confidence when coming out of corner and applying power then the tire spins while still somewhat leaned over......worse with street tires.

I was 290lbs fully suited at the time and with the weight of the Busa makes the tires work awefully hard compared to the smaller bikes and smaller riders. Granted my bike is nearly 70lbs lighter than stock.

I had to experiment with getting harder tires (slicks) to last longer, etc.

 

[fallenarch]

I've had mine leaned over enough to scrap the fairing. Problem I always had was after just a few hard laps the tire starts to lose bite because of heat. You start to lose confidence when coming out of corner and applying power then the tire spins while still somewhat leaned over......worse with street tires.

I was 290lbs fully suited at the time and with the weight of the Busa makes the tires work awefully hard compared to the smaller bikes and smaller riders. Granted my bike is nearly 70lbs lighter than stock.

I had to experiment with getting harder tires (slicks) to last longer, etc.

I can assure you modern tires don't do that. Nobody at the track was running slicks and my buddy was on an 1199 and he has his professional rider's license. There were guys in the blue group running Q3's like me and no problems on S1000RR's. I was on Q3's that weren't even new and they were fine. And while I joke a lot i'm not a slow guy by any means.

Truth is you have to be really smoking it to get a knee down at my weight but there were a couple times my friend said it looked like it was down (wasn't no scuffs on the slider puck). I never felt as much as a shimmy on the Q3's. I also have a TPMS and they weren't even getting that hot (pressure only went up 6 psi, less than on a really hot day of street riding).

If you had a good set of tires (Pilot 2CTs or Q2 or Q3's) and a normally aspirated Busa then your engine wasn't eating the tires.

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

I don't understand what you mean here Arch. Modern tires don't do what? If you get ham fisted... even on a slick you can spool up the rear. Your Busa could spin just about any tire out from under her leaned over. Any newer liter bike could do the same. They make tons of power. The control is in the right hand.

Run a set of Q2 or Q3 in A both days at a race track (7 - 20 min session / day) and they are done. Back off 5 - 10 seconds off that pace and they'll last two or more weekends. It's just a matter of how you apply the throttle.

I can assure you modern tires don't do that. Nobody at the track was running slicks and my buddy was on an 1199 and he has his professional rider's license. There were guys in the blue group running Q3's like me and no problems on S1000RR's. I was on Q3's that weren't even new and they were fine. And while I joke a lot i'm not a slow guy by any means.

Truth is you have to be really smoking it to get a knee down at my weight but there were a couple times my friend said it looked like it was down (wasn't no scuffs on the slider puck). I never felt as much as a shimmy on the Q3's. I also have a TPMS and they weren't even getting that hot (pressure only went up 6 psi, less than on a really hot day of street riding).

If you had a good set of tires (Pilot 2CTs or Q2 or Q3's) and a normally aspirated Busa then your engine wasn't eating the tires.

 

[fallenarch]

Busashot said that after a few laps the tire was gone, I find that hard to believe. That's all. Yeah you can eat a tire in a weekend, but in a few laps? Obviously, you can put too much beans in the tire and make the stickiest tire break lose at any time on a busa or most any liter bike and probably many 600's. My modern tire comment was referring to it being worn out after a few laps.

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

Tires are funny. They talk to you all the time you are riding...the trick is to listen to what they are saying.

 

[Tiller]

Busashot said that after a few laps the tire was gone, I find that hard to believe. That's all. Yeah you can eat a tire in a weekend, but in a few laps? Obviously, you can put too much beans in the tire and make the stickiest tire break lose at any time on a busa or most any liter bike and probably many 600's. My modern tire comment was referring to it being worn out after a few laps.

He was probably referring to it just getting greasy after a few laps... A fast rider at the track on street tires can absolutely get the tires hot enough to be greasy in a few Laps. Granted it's usually worse on hotter days.

I have duct taped race fairings and a big right butt cheek patch on my suit to prove that a street tire (Q3) can get greasy and let go when pushed passed its limits

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

Thanks for sharing your experiences...now drag some more friends to the track and go have some fun!

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

Since you brought it up...describe the moment. Wasn't it a guy just passed or you were chasing and "just" started to get back on the gas when she let go?

He was probably referring to it just getting greasy after a few laps... A fast rider at the track on street tires can absolutely get the tires hot enough to be greasy in a few Laps. Granted it's usually worse on hotter days.

I have duct taped race fairings and a big right butt cheek patch on my suit to prove that a street tire (Q3) can get greasy and let go when pushed passed its limits

 

[Tiller]

Since you brought it up...describe the moment. Wasn't it a guy just passed or you were chasing and "just" started to get back on the gas when she let go?

Yep, all my fault, but I was pushing a street tire closer to the edge than I should have been. Found a buddy up in front of me and decided to try and catch him.... Leaned over in turn 2-3 at Barber and decide I need to open up the gas now to get a better drive... I grabbed my normal throttle, then just a tad bit more to be faster and BOOM.... Gone

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

One from back in the day... Keith spooling up a slick with too much throttle at a given lean angle.

 

[fallenarch]

Nice! He didn't even have to pull into the pits to change leathers.

 

[skydivr]

Nice! He didn't even have to pull into the pits to change leathers.

Oh..yep I remember that...no I didn't pit, but I probably made a diamond that day...

 

[skydivr]

Yep, all my fault, but I was pushing a street tire closer to the edge than I should have been. Found a buddy up in front of me and decided to try and catch him.... Leaned over in turn 2-3 at Barber and decide I need to open up the gas now to get a better drive... I grabbed my normal throttle, then just a tad bit more to be faster and BOOM.... Gone

Wasn't I right behind you when you did it, or was it me you were chasing (back then) ?

One from back in the day... Keith spooling up a slick with too much throttle at a given lean angle.

I'm trying to remember the circumstances of that...was that that dang Pirelli trackday slick I tried (never again)?

 

[Busashot]

I am a pretty good rider and quite aggressive while being smooth. You have to understand we are competing with a bike that isn't at it's finest on the curves. I am not saying it doesn't do well but a heavy crank engine is not the best bike to be ripping through corners especially when you are on a small track with very little opportunity to use the Busa's best attributes. Fast corner speeds at this track is what wins races......the Busa can't provide that. 600s can.

Yes. Tiller is correct about the street tires getting greasy quickly. Slicks took a lot longer to even show those signs but on a hot day they talked after about 10 -12 laps. Out here we get pretty hot. Some times 95 - 100'. On the street tires it took about 85' outside temps to slip. I can't recall what the temp was on the asphalt but it was up there.

And one last thing, when I dropped 40lbs from myself and adjusted the suspension accordingly, the bike certainly tracked better and tires worked better and longer.