Hybrid Fogger / Spraybar Setup

[Draco1340]

I have made strong arguments AGAINST spray-bars in the past, but I figured it was time for full disclosure since I run a spray-bar and a fogger. If you use a progressive with your spray-bar, the intake valve is opening 10 times faster than the solenoid is pulsing, making for very rich / lean conditions depending on when the solenoid opens. This leads to detonation, etc, etc... Pulsed fogger systems don't have that problem because the hit mixes evenly by the time it goes into the intake. What spray-bars are good for is instant-on efficient power if the solenoid is mounted right at the bar. Both systems have there disadvantages and advantages.

The setup below uses a very small baby shot (20HP) to get the bike off the line at launch, and then progressively feeds in the power with two big foggers (45 HP each) in the ram air tubes starting at the top of first gear. I found that I needed about 230 HP at launch to get me moving for a good 60 ft time, but the fogger wasn't the solution. They are too slow to react, and too powerful when they do come in since you can only step them down to about 25%. You can kind of see the blue fogger lines coming into the side of the box with their own solenoid and a purge valve at the bottom. Having two separate nitrous systems allows me to tune the launch (60 ft ~ 1.32) separate from the overall pull (1/8 mph ~ 142). As the weather got hotter during the summer and the DA got worse, I just bumped up the spider power for launch, and now that the weather is cooling down I started to bring that power back down again to keep it at a level the chassis (and I) can handle.

Thought I would throw this out there to those of you looking to try something different.

Tom P. Boston MA.

 

[Gixx1300R]

I see that you are still misinformed about Nitrous and it's components.

 

[Draco1340]

I see that you are still misinformed about Nitrous and it's components.

Gixx,
It would seem that unless someone posts a thread about "your" nitrous systems or post fancy photos with cute dragons in the background, they must be total idiots. I don't know if you are a racer, or an amateur photographer, but I had hope this forum was an opportunity to share, discuss and debate useful information. I'm wrong about things all the time (just ask my first wife), so feel free to explain.

 

[Gixx1300R]

I have never stated or ever will state that someone is a idiot, now if that is how you feel then dont blame me. I have no problem discussing different options when it comes to bikes. There is more than one way to skin a cat. If you do a search you will see that I have posted pics on many different Nitrous systems, not only my own. Message recieved on you taking little jabs by saying "post fancy photos with cute dragons ". As you have said before, you like to stir the pot.

 

[GoldenChild]

The Heat Is On........

 

[Draco1340]

Golden Child, you were going to PM me some pricing on an upper fairing? Although running naked doesn't seem to affect MPH much at all.

 

[GoldenChild]

Sorry bro, kids first days of school been crazy..doing it right now be right back with price..

Golden Child, you were going to PM me some pricing on an upper fairing? Although running naked doesn't seem to affect MPH much at all.

 

[Gixx1300R]

The Heat Is On........

Damn song by Glenn Frey is running through my head now, thanks

 

[GoldenChild]

waiting on a call back from catalyst

Golden Child, you were going to PM me some pricing on an upper fairing? Although running naked doesn't seem to affect MPH much at all.

 

[teezy]

Draco if you don't mind me asking what is the set up on the bike?

not so much the motor more so how long is the bike?

is in a hand clutch,?

slider?

What nitrous controller?

With a good chassis,clutch and nitrous controller there is no reason you shouldn't be cutting 1.2's with just the fogger.

 

[teezy]

How heavy are you?

 

[Draco1340]

Teezy,
Bike is 66" with stock hand clutch. I still like to think its a street bike, and actually do keep it registered with a plate and all. 1.2s are possible, but its hard at that wheelbase. Bike and Rider are 650, with most of the weight pretty far forward.

without the spray bar, I couldn't come out of the hole until the fogger kicked in. The motor is a 1441, but it still didn't have enough torque to consistently dig without occasionally bogging. The spraybar is instant on and makes the motor feel like a 1507 stroker. I have never bogged since putting on the spider. The other solution was to gear for 6 gears like a lot the ZX10 and GSXR1k bikes do, but at 66" I kept it to 5 gears and go through the traps at 11,200.

 

[GoldenChild]

Which throttle tube do you have on your bike?

Wouldn't bike go a little faster with 6 gears of usage? I find it will put you back in the meat of the power band, hence bike pulling.. Nitrous loves to pull against the motor and bet you will go faster... I'm geared to go thru traps just below redline in 6th, right before where power starts to drop for last gear, that's what i wanted ...Never leave power on the table..

Teezy,
Bike is 66" with stock hand clutch. I still like to think its a street bike, and actually do keep it registered with a plate and all. 1.2s are possible, but its hard at that wheelbase. Bike and Rider are 650, with most of the weight pretty far forward.

without the spray bar, I couldn't come out of the hole until the fogger kicked in. The motor is a 1441, but it still didn't have enough torque to consistently dig without occasionally bogging. The spraybar is instant on and makes the motor feel like a 1507 stroker. I have never bogged since putting on the spider. The other solution was to gear for 6 gears like a lot the ZX10 and GSXR1k bikes do, but at 66" I kept it to 5 gears and go through the traps at 11,200.

 

[Draco1340]

Which throttle tube do you have on your bike?

Wouldn't bike go a little faster with 6 gears of usage? I find it will put you back in the meat of the power band, hence bike pulling.. Nitrous loves to pull against the motor and bet you will go faster... I'm geared to go thru traps just below redline in 6th, right before where power starts to drop for last gear, that's what i wanted ...Never leave power on the table..

Yea, the 5 gear vs 6 gear debate is one I've gone over a lot. 6 gears is another .125 second delay for shifting, and might mean too much gear for my chassis and too much torque for my stock clutch. Everything is a trade off.

I'm geared for 175 in 5th with a 17/43 (2.53) ratio. To use all of 6th, I would have to drop to a 16/44 (2.75) ratio. There is no way my chassis or my stock clutch could handle that. I was planning on adding another 40 HP and bumping up my trap speed to 182 to justify using all 6 gears. A 16/42 (2.63) ratio works out to 182 mph, and "might" not flip me over immediately.

GC, what kind of trap speed to you have to justify 6 gears?

Tom.

 

[teezy]

Teezy,
Bike is 66" with stock hand clutch. I still like to think its a street bike, and actually do keep it registered with a plate and all. 1.2s are possible, but its hard at that wheelbase. Bike and Rider are 650, with most of the weight pretty far forward.

without the spray bar, I couldn't come out of the hole until the fogger kicked in. The motor is a 1441, but it still didn't have enough torque to consistently dig without occasionally bogging. The spraybar is instant on and makes the motor feel like a 1507 stroker. I have never bogged since putting on the spider. The other solution was to gear for 6 gears like a lot the ZX10 and GSXR1k bikes do, but at 66" I kept it to 5 gears and go through the traps at 11,200.

so its like a REAL STREET bike?


what nitrous controller?

 

[GoldenChild]

I didn't know you had a stock clutch, nice... that's pretty good, stick with it since you like it..

Yea, the 5 gear vs 6 gear debate is one I've gone over a lot. 6 gears is another .125 second delay for shifting, and might mean too much gear for my chassis and too much torque for my stock clutch. Everything is a trade off.

I'm geared for 175 in 5th with a 17/43 (2.53) ratio. To use all of 6th, I would have to drop to a 16/44 (2.75) ratio. There is no way my chassis or my stock clutch could handle that. I was planning on adding another 40 HP and bumping up my trap speed to 182 to justify using all 6 gears. A 16/42 (2.63) ratio works out to 182 mph, and "might" not flip me over immediately.

GC, what kind of trap speed to you have to justify 6 gears?

Tom.

 

[twotonevert]

For fear of overeacting, I will count the comments towards playful banter between drag racers and not personal attacks. Play nice boys.

 

[Draco1340]

so its like a REAL STREET bike?


what nitrous controller?

I have the Edlebrock 71900 controller, but it was originally labeled as a Schnitz controller. Same nitrous controller but the original label. And yea once I pull the stock clutch is when it officially becomes a non-street bike. Maybe next year...

Play nice? If pointing out unsafe designs that don't work is "not nice" then so be it. There is a huge amount of crap out there, and its always a judgement call if you want to call people out on it.

Usually I would let sleeping dogs lie, but look at the photos above of the multicolored system with foot long push fittings. WOW. You don't think those long large diameter lines are going to take multiple seconds to begin flowing? And then when you turn the valves off don't you think the fuel will take 3 or 4 seconds to slowly drain out. Try slowing down a motor that doesn't want to shut down when your at 180. If your lucky the 1/4" push fittings won't blow off on you or melt from the fuel. Play nice? How about play safe! Good design practice has solenoids located as close as possible to the exiting orifice; preferably right in the air box. Good design practice has gotten away from wet systems in place of dry systems because they are much safer and easier to control. Nitrous gets a bad rap in part because there is so much crap out there about it.

Tom

 

[teezy]

I have the Edlebrock 71900 controller, but it was originally labeled as a Schnitz controller. Same nitrous controller but the original label. And yea once I pull the stock clutch is when it officially becomes a non-street bike. Maybe next year..
Tom

For a hand clutch shorter bike like that I was say "your doing some work"......... I would look into the NLR nitrous controller....might give you more control. Can build your graph the way you like it.... flat line it etc,etc,etc....


How much power does the bike make? Im assuming 1441 is pumping 210-230whp na plus 115hp of laughing gas... somewhere in the 225-245whp range?

 

[Draco1340]

My 1441 made 225 -230 corrected, but real world horsepower on a summer day with DA at 2800' is more like 200.
The spider is 20 right off the hit.
The fogger comes in at 35% with another 75 - 80. So maybe 300 total uncorrected

BTW, the NLR is a MUCH better controller. I programed one for a friend with a turbo for controlling the wastegate. Expensive but nice.
Can a multistage lockup really do that much better than 1.30? I need to get one over the winter.