Oil filter adaptor...

W

wheelinaz

Registered
Hello all. I recently bought my first/last Busa:cheerleader: and am almost ready to do the 600-mile oil and filter change, and would like to add my boos and hisses to those of everyone else who's unhappy with the plastics. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the armpits of the designer(s) and whoever said, "I like it, let's do it!":moon:
The subject of filter adaptors has been mentioned before, and I've searched threads, but I can't find a post saying, "I bought one, I put it in, and here's what I know." So I'm asking the direct question: To get away from being limited to using only Suzuki oil filters, has anyone installed (or or been in on installing) an adaptor like the one from Bales in CA for $15? If so, how hard was it to remove the original equipment factory nipple? If a bonding adhesive was used by the engine builder, like blue LOCTITE 242 or something similar, hand tools will separate the parts more or less easily; red LOCTITE 601 on the other hand, needs heat to let go. I'd appreciate input from someone who's been there and done that.
My next question involves clutch adjustment. Page 7-23 in my owner's manual says "There is no adjustment......because the system is self adjusting." I can't believe there's not an adjuster hidden behind the left side plastic; I've got the disc at the lever fulcrum set at 4 and the clutch still engages way too far from the grip to suit me, and everything's new! What's going to happen when stuff wears in a bit some miles down the road? Thanks, and good riding to all...
 
Ive never heard of anything like that, but I dont know everything. Id rock the stock setup.

just my 02 for ya:thumbsup:
 
You can PM Ajay, as I belive he's looked into the adapter for different oil filters. He is also an engineer and can answer your questions. There are many other brands of oil filters as well, so you're not limited to just Suzuki brand on the stock fitting.
The clutch wears fine too, ride the bike and don't worry about it.:beerchug:
 
sixpack577 said:
You can PM Ajay, as I belive he's looked into the adapter for different oil filters. He is also an engineer and can answer your questions. There are many other brands of oil filters as well, so you're not limited to just Suzuki brand on the stock fitting.
The clutch wears fine too, ride the bike and don't worry about it.:beerchug:
Click to expand...

Stop following and one uppin me!!:laugh:
 
Just use the available filters and be happy...ride the bike and get to know what's up before you want to reinvent the wheel.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
What's wrong with the OE oil filter configuration? Are you just trying to get a larger capacity filter in there? What would the swap accomplish? You're still using the same design of an oil filter...

The only thing I've done is added an adapter so the filter points to the side vs. forward to make it easier to change filters.

As for the clutch, it's not a cable clutch so there's no additional adjustment at the clutch slave. You can buy a different fulcrum from Brocks that gives you more adjustment for the lever. I had mine at the point where about a quarter inch from the grip the clutch would start pulling.
 
Just stumbled onto this thread. Thanks for your confidence in my engineering skills. ;)

I now have the parts and was planning on making a thorough post when I got the chance to install them. Running through the numbers, the parts cost $20 total with filter, so I'll break even at the second oil change with $5 filters from then on.

The filter adapter from Bales Tech looks like a very nice part. Shipping was superquick - like two days! - as fast as Amazon Prime shipping for the filter.

The first two pics show the adapter. The left side threads are the M20 x 1.5 threaded part that fits the new oil filter. The stock Suzuki filter uses a M20 x 1 thread, which is essentially the same diameter, but a coarser thread (fewer threads per mm).

Haven't measured the thread on the other end. Given that it is smaller (the side that screws into the engine), that determines the max safe bore of the adapter. I plan to compare the stock part and the Bales Tech adapter to verify that the bores are the same, as this could potentially restrict fluid flow. Right now, I'm not worried.

I went with a different filter than the one recommended by Mark Lawrence on his filter comparison page: Motorcycle Oil Filter Comparison. Mark recommends the Purolator PL14610 filter. Many people talk about using this filter on the Kawi and Honda forums. There are two things I did not like about this filter for the Hayabusa application: 1) It is longer than the stock Busa filter (3.52" vs. 2.5" tall) and I am concerned about clearance; and 2) It has a significantly higher pressure for opening the bypass valve compared to the stock filter. Of these, the bypass pressure was the biggest concern.

I ended up buying the Purolator PureONE PL14459 filter. This is shorter, just a little taller than the stock filter (2.95" vs. 2.5" tall). It is also fatter than the PL14610 (3.15" OD vs. 2.69"). The fatter can allows more filter material, but the base gasket is the same dimension). The PL14459 has a relief pressure of 12 to 15 psi (stock is 11 psi), vs. the PL14610 which is 14 - 18 psi. I think this difference is important because these engines pump a lot of fluid at peak rpm and I did not want the filter choking oil flow before the bypass valve opens.

That's it for now. I'm not too worried about the installation per the OP WheelinAZ's post. If I have to, I can use a half-inch drive with a long bar to break it loose. I'll take pics and post when I do the surgery.

mini-P1020963.JPG


mini-P1020962.JPG


mini-P1020964.JPG
 
PS - You can also put a few drops of acetone on the threads to help break the loctite. I really don't think this is a problem, but should know soon. :)
 
Commuta_Busa said:
What's wrong with the OE oil filter configuration? Are you just trying to get a larger capacity filter in there? What would the swap accomplish? You're still using the same design of an oil filter...

The only thing I've done is added an adapter so the filter points to the side vs. forward to make it easier to change filters.

As for the clutch, it's not a cable clutch so there's no additional adjustment at the clutch slave. You can buy a different fulcrum from Brocks that gives you more adjustment for the lever. I had mine at the point where about a quarter inch from the grip the clutch would start pulling.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick comeback. I really appreciate the straight talk, no rudeness or sarcasm. The reason I want to switch is here: Motorcycle Oil and Filters This guy has more than done his homework.

As for the side-mount adaptor, I'm in my garage now looking at the stock setup (with right plastic off), trying to visualize the advantage. My young Marine bud who runs the back room at the stealership says there's no need to pull plastic, that I can access the filter thru the hole in the fairing; his (apparently) small-armed tech does it every day for $40+ a pop. What do you think?

Thanks also for the clutch input. I've been working out of a toolbox since my motorpool days in the military ('59-'62) with 30+ years in a Goodyear Tire factory after. Seen maybe a gazillion slave cylinders, but now probably come across like my head's where the sun don't shine.:duh: In my defense, I've seen Murphy's law make a mess of a lot of jobs mainly because, back in the day, we subscribed to the if it don't work, use a bigger hammer theory. Today, this new Busa's my baby and I just want an edge against something untoward happening to it. I'll find the Brock lever on the 'net and shorten up my grab lag.
Thanks again for getting back to me. wheelinaz (Phil):race:
 
You're going to do the filter once or twice a year. Remoting the filter is probably not a great idea, as you will be restricting flow, despite what the manufacturer's (or your friend's) recommends. Switching to the purolator filter is mostly about getting a better quality filter instead of saving money.

The hydraulic clutch has no adjustments, although the lever position can be adjusted slightly. It's possible that you might need to bleed your clutch if it's engaging too early.

If you want more lever Adjustment, look up Pazzos (expensive) or Chazzos (Chinese copies). I like my Chazzos. Best bling, maybe the only bling, I've put on my scoot.s
 
AJAY said:
Just stumbled onto this thread. Thanks for your confidence in my engineering skills. ;)

I now have the parts and was planning on making a thorough post when I got the chance to install them. Running through the numbers, the parts cost $20 total with filter, so I'll break even at the second oil change with $5 filters from then on.

The filter adapter from Bales Tech looks like a very nice part. Shipping was superquick - like two days! - as fast as Amazon Prime shipping for the filter.

The first two pics show the adapter. The left side threads are the M20 x 1.5 threaded part that fits the new oil filter. The stock Suzuki filter uses a M20 x 1 thread, which is essentially the same diameter, but a coarser thread (fewer threads per mm).

Haven't measured the thread on the other end. Given that it is smaller (the side that screws into the engine), that determines the max safe bore of the adapter. I plan to compare the stock part and the Bales Tech adapter to verify that the bores are the same, as this could potentially restrict fluid flow. Right now, I'm not worried.

I went with a different filter than the one recommended by Mark Lawrence on his filter comparison page: Motorcycle Oil Filter Comparison. Mark recommends the Purolator PL14610 filter. Many people talk about using this filter on the Kawi and Honda forums. There are two things I did not like about this filter for the Hayabusa application: 1) It is longer than the stock Busa filter (3.52" vs. 2.5" tall) and I am concerned about clearance; and 2) It has a significantly higher pressure for opening the bypass valve compared to the stock filter. Of these, the bypass pressure was the biggest concern.

I ended up buying the Purolator PureONE PL14459 filter. This is shorter, just a little taller than the stock filter (2.95" vs. 2.5" tall). It is also fatter than the PL14610 (3.15" OD vs. 2.69"). The fatter can allows more filter material, but the base gasket is the same dimension). The PL14459 has a relief pressure of 12 to 15 psi (stock is 11 psi), vs. the PL14610 which is 14 - 18 psi. I think this difference is important because these engines pump a lot of fluid at peak rpm and I did not want the filter choking oil flow before the bypass valve opens.

That's it for now. I'm not too worried about the installation per the OP WheelinAZ's post. If I have to, I can use a half-inch drive with a long bar to break it loose. I'll take pics and post when I do the surgery.
Click to expand...

AJAY, post tenebras, lux! Your timely response, concise and germane, without a hint of condescension or lapsing into jargon, is received with a heartfelt Thank You!:yes:

Yes, Mr. Bales ships promptly. Mine arrived on the third day after I phoned in the order.

Do you have filter data on Purolator PureONE PL14612 re: bypass-valve relief pressure? Same as the PL14610? Size-wise, it's about stock at 2.5" long, with a 2.69"D, which would leave space at the cooler lines for a filter wrench; when removing the filter, there would be adequate clearance between the filter base and the .562" long new adaptor nipple before the top of the filter contacts the header.

The PL14459 is almost .250" a side fatter, and nearly .5" longer, so I'm not sure about the fit. I tried guestimating clearances, but lacking data from someone who's gone this route, a better way would be to trial fit each filter (if bypass-valve pressure issues are resolved) and eliminate all doubt. Or.... Wait until you jump in there with both feet and then hope you'll share what you learn.:whistle:
I don't anticipate doing much in the redline range, but like you, am interested in how much oil will squeeze thru the .470" bore of the new adaptor. While I may rarely produce screaming exhaust notes as I go thru the first three gears, I still want plenty of flow available for things at high rpm's.

Thanks once again for your input, looking forward to our next visit. wheelinaz
 
The bypass valve is for when the filter gets plugged up if it gets dirty, which it shouldnt if you change the oil normally. I have run filters on cars with the bypass disabled with no problems or having any decrease in pressure. The filters were larger of course(Chevy V8) which may make some difference but having a higher opening pressure wont hurt anything. In fact its worse if the filter was plugged up by crap and the bypass opens sending dirt through the filter unfiltered which will damage the engine.
 
MarkZ28 said:
The bypass valve is for when the filter gets plugged up if it gets dirty, which it shouldnt if you change the oil normally. I have run filters on cars with the bypass disabled with no problems or having any decrease in pressure. The filters were larger of course(Chevy V8) which may make some difference but having a higher opening pressure wont hurt anything. In fact its worse if the filter was plugged up by crap and the bypass opens sending dirt through the filter unfiltered which will damage the engine.
Click to expand...
This is partly correct. But it's not there just for when the filter is overloaded from not being changed (preventing catastrophic damage to the filter media).

The bypass valve comes into play during initial engine start when the engine is cold and the oil is too thick to pass easily through the filter media. The bypass valve can also open when the engine is rev'd to high rpm when oil pressure is at it's highest and lubrication needs are greatest. This latter case is not really a problem for normal street operation, since you spend just a tiny fraction of the time operating the engine near peak rpm (especially on the Busa!).

You do not need 100% filtration from the filter. Indeed, particle filtration quality is determined by both single pass and multi pass measurements. Most of the time, your oil is passing through the filter. The bypass valve just makes sure your engine has adequate oil flow through a wider range of engine operational conditions without requiring a huge filter to accomplish the task or the use of too coarse a filter that does not provide adequate filtration.
 
Forgot to mention that the filter IS indeed still proving oil filtration when the bypass valve opens; it's just diverting some of the oil flow past the filter so that the maximum filter restriction is equal to the bypass pressure.

It's sort of like a blowoff valve (BOV) in a turbocharger setup, where the exhaust pressure through the turbine is capped at some value (peak flow) and excess exhaust is ported around the turbine. The turbine still has flow through it. Just substitute "filter" for turbine and "oil" for exhaust and the analogy holds.
 
Ok, started doing this job tonight. Replacing the adapter is not all that difficult, although you will destroy your original / stock adapter doing it.

HOWEVER, I am recommending against this mod, even if it seems I am stuck with it. :(

The PL14459 filter I picked would fit *IF* the fatter can could get in there past the exhaust pipes and the small oil line that is in the front, and unfortunately in the way. The can is just too fat to fit through the space.

I believe that their is sufficient room for the smaller diameter PL14612 to fit in there. I even think the longer PL14610 filter to fit in there, although you probably could not use an end-cap wrench on the longer filter wrench on it. Either of these filters will leave you with the higher bypass valve pressure that I was concerned about earlier, a concern I may just have to live with. Que sera sera.
 
Hey, I know this is an older thread, but did anyone put the adapter on? I ordered the adapter last week and was looking to install it this weekend. I'm curious how the "upgraded" filters are doing? Has the bypass pressure been an issue with any bikes?
 
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