I have bicycled before, and if you think cars are aggressive with motorcycles, you haven't seen anything. We had a car speed up last night in a vain attempt to prevent me from passing (I was the lead rider), and so I eased past him and then shut the door on him with a number of inches to spare so that I could take an appropriate line for the left hander that he was trying to beat me to. I am comfortable on the bike, and I understand most of the mechanics of cornering. I usually am on the balls of my feet when railing, and I almost always avoid the rear brake when railing. This has been a tough summer on sport bikes. On two recent rides, we hadm 2 0r 9 go down and 3 of 10 go down. Way too many people are using GPs and "forgetting" to let the others know. I still don'w understand which way I turned the bars to righten my line. I have watched Mach II closely, and on some slow turns, they actually turn into the turn instead of countersteering. They do it after the bike is flopped over and the knee is down, and it only happens on slow turns. I recently learned by accident how to deal with an unintended wheelie while exiing a corner. It appears that my line does not widen as much as I thought it would on just one wheel. If I turned into the turn (WRONG), it feels like an impending tank slapper when it comes down. Chopping the throttle is bad. If I just counter steer a little bit and drag the tire across the pavement while maintaining my angle of lean, the front tire snaps back in line without upsetting the bike as it lands. I really hope that I survive my learning curve. I would like to attend a riding school where ther would be no more risk of going down than on one of our Sunday rides. I'll bet I'd learn a lot pretty fast. Trying to teach myself feels pretty dangerous.
Question about railing.
- Thread starter OB_Kirk
- Start date
G
Guest
When hanging off be sure to use your legs & hips to make the move. Don't be pulling on the bars to get into position.
...god point...you should "unload" the bike with your legs...you need to be smooth and not plop your mass around, or you will upset the bike nad end up going slower...practise moving around w/o upseting the balance of the bike or bouncing around...not always too easy, but you get the knack...
I went on a ride this afternoon that I have been avoiding for a while. The last time I went, 2 of 9 bikes went down trying to keep up with the 2 ride leaders, both of which were on 207GPs, one of which is a local top ranked road racer. I think it was pretty much them racing each other with two of the seven others crashing while trying to keep up. This time I did the ride with two more responsible riders today, and it was much more fun. My skills are much better than last time, I didn't feel pushed, and I am getting comfortable enough on the bike that I am not as likely to panic when something goes wrong. My skill level is whatever someone is after they are a beginner. I use the entire tire, front and rear, and I am getting my toes down on both sides. I had trouble with a 20mph uphill left hander that broke over into an off-camber turn about 2/3 the way through. It was probably constant radius, but it felt like a decreasing radius turn because of the off-camber part. I had never seen this turn before I entered it at about 45mph. I got off the brake, banked into the turn, eased into the throttle to set the rear suspension, and aimed it at what I thought was the apex. I am not prone to apex early, as I have had some driver training in cars. Everything was cool until the turn broke over, and my line began to widen. I could see that it was going to cause me to run wide and off into the ditch. I held the throttle steady and banked until my toes were down. It wasn't getting better fast enough to keep me on the road, so I instinctively slipped off seat on the low side. I have no idea what I was doing, but it worked. My line tightened, giving me two inches before the fog line. I noticed as I exited that I had stuck my knee out and had gotten really close to getting it down. What I don't know is what I did with the bars if anything. Does hanging off tighten your line, or do you think I turned the bars in one direction or another that tightened my line accidentally?
G
Guest
Truthfully, its not a science that can be objectively analyzed and dissected.
Its an art.
You can be taught the techniques up to a point.
From there, either god blessed you with the gift or he did not.
This could be argued but in my opinion Freddie Spencer is the Michael Jordan of motorcycle racing, never before or since have I ever seen anyone come close.
If you've ever had the pleasure to watch him in action he was so different from the competition in that he never fought or wrestled the bike, never busy in his movements.
Just silky smoothness and seemless transitions making himself one with the machine.
Still dangerous as hell to this day, took out an old 82 interceptor and spanked a bunch of moto journalists and racers on brand new 929's.
At his school he routinely uses a red 98VFR800 and leaves everybody for dead whenever he pleases.
Not to take anything away from the other greats out there but nobody does it like fast freddie.
Its an art.
You can be taught the techniques up to a point.
From there, either god blessed you with the gift or he did not.
This could be argued but in my opinion Freddie Spencer is the Michael Jordan of motorcycle racing, never before or since have I ever seen anyone come close.
If you've ever had the pleasure to watch him in action he was so different from the competition in that he never fought or wrestled the bike, never busy in his movements.
Just silky smoothness and seemless transitions making himself one with the machine.
Still dangerous as hell to this day, took out an old 82 interceptor and spanked a bunch of moto journalists and racers on brand new 929's.
At his school he routinely uses a red 98VFR800 and leaves everybody for dead whenever he pleases.
Not to take anything away from the other greats out there but nobody does it like fast freddie.
OB_cbxchris
Registered
I`ve still never forgiven SMOOTH Freddie for knocking Roberts in the dirt on the last turn and winning the world championship...you may not have been around then but he came in the turn way over his head and used Roberts for a berm........Roberts is his DADDY..........period.....guess you can tell I never pulled for anyone on a honda....he he he
OB_Speeder T
Registered
You could also tap the rear brake a little to tighten up the line if you are going wide.
Good idea to get a 207 for up front,matching tires go a long way.
Good idea to get a 207 for up front,matching tires go a long way.
OB_CaveDweller
Registered
Kirk,
Sounds like you know all I can tell you but just in case:
hanging off does five things:
1) Puts your weight on the pegs providing better stability. (BTW: You said you were "dragging your toes" which sounds like you were sitting on the seat with the pegs under your arches - technically, you should be on the balls of your feet with your weight on the pegs (not your seat) in the twisties.)
2) gets your body lower (assuming you hang your Butt and torso off and down) lowering the CG of the bike/body system and allows you to reduce lean angle for the same turn radius.
3) the knee drag gives you a way to calibrate your turns. If you ride to the limits, you will learn to measure the point at which the tires break by knee positon relative to the road (actually, the knee touches the road and you learn the leg position for that speed). You can use that to "measure" your turns to know how close you are to your limits.
4) According to "twist of the wrist" by Kieth Code, hanging the knee out acts as a source of drag (wind resistance) helping pull you around the turn. - this I find hard to believe - but the guy is famous so it must be true
.
5) According to "twist of the wrist" by Kieth Code, hanging the knee out provides a sense of security allowing you to feel more comfortable in an agressive lean. (You said you almost got your knee down. It could be that since you know guys drag their knee on the Busa all the time and you weren't, that you were not pushing the limits of your tires.)
I figure you transferred weight to the pegs (got some stability), and tightened your line (lowered the CG). Since you shifted weight in the turn, you probably pressed on the bars to move yourself and tightened the line further (you're supposed to hang off and get stable before you enter the turn - no pressure on the bars.).
I wish I had your "instincts" Good riding!
[This message has been edited by CaveDweller (edited 13 August 2000).]
Sounds like you know all I can tell you but just in case:
hanging off does five things:
1) Puts your weight on the pegs providing better stability. (BTW: You said you were "dragging your toes" which sounds like you were sitting on the seat with the pegs under your arches - technically, you should be on the balls of your feet with your weight on the pegs (not your seat) in the twisties.)
2) gets your body lower (assuming you hang your Butt and torso off and down) lowering the CG of the bike/body system and allows you to reduce lean angle for the same turn radius.
3) the knee drag gives you a way to calibrate your turns. If you ride to the limits, you will learn to measure the point at which the tires break by knee positon relative to the road (actually, the knee touches the road and you learn the leg position for that speed). You can use that to "measure" your turns to know how close you are to your limits.
4) According to "twist of the wrist" by Kieth Code, hanging the knee out acts as a source of drag (wind resistance) helping pull you around the turn. - this I find hard to believe - but the guy is famous so it must be true
.5) According to "twist of the wrist" by Kieth Code, hanging the knee out provides a sense of security allowing you to feel more comfortable in an agressive lean. (You said you almost got your knee down. It could be that since you know guys drag their knee on the Busa all the time and you weren't, that you were not pushing the limits of your tires.)
I figure you transferred weight to the pegs (got some stability), and tightened your line (lowered the CG). Since you shifted weight in the turn, you probably pressed on the bars to move yourself and tightened the line further (you're supposed to hang off and get stable before you enter the turn - no pressure on the bars.).
I wish I had your "instincts" Good riding!
[This message has been edited by CaveDweller (edited 13 August 2000).]
G
Guest
Commendable, your reaction was pretty much textbook and not at all typical of what riders normally do.
G
Guest
Oh yes chris, I was around then.
Busy emulating Bob Hannah on my YZ125 at the time.
Busy emulating Bob Hannah on my YZ125 at the time.
OB_cbxchris
Registered
Omega same here except 250....still had streetbikes though...
Lyle, Hapo- Good point. I catch myself trying to manhandle the bike from the bars like I was wrestling a steer from time to time. I have the upper body strength to do it, but it is not as stable. I am trying to concentrate on smoothness and weighting the pegs now. I learn more when I ride by myself at this point. I also find it helpful to ride one gear too high in the corners. It makes the throttle less dangerous.
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