I read about how a lot of people shift w/o using the clutch . I try it and It absolutely will not shift w/o the clutch in 2nd or 3rd..I tried high rpm's , low rpm's .It wont do it . But 4th to 5th & 6th work fine. Is this normal? Thanks
Shift w/o the clutch question
- Thread starter PocketRocket
- Start date
All I do is just slightly close the throttle and it shifts perfectly at any rpm. Practice, but don't hurt the tranny. The clutch also works very well.
I always use the clutch between first and second. The rest are just a matter of preloading the shifter and a blip of the throttle, in it goes. For a long time it was about the only way I could get it to go into 6th gear.
+1 on 'between 1st and 2nd." I haven't found a need to clutchless shift at that point.
If you are all out going fast and going to redline no need for the clutch 1-2, but if just putting around its not smooth that way. The upper shifts you can do pretty smoothly even when putting. Just preload the shifter, then blip the throttle shut and pull up, will drop right into gear
rvtech24
Banned
Motorcycle Transmission Information
By Mark Shively
Slipping out of Gear:
Trying to mate slower spinning sliding gears with very high spinning fixed gears is hard on the transmission. If the transmission is slipping out of 1st or 2nd gears, the dogs and cogs are rounded (worn) and must be replaced.
Race Shifting:
If it won't shift from 1st into 2nd at or near redline, try pre-loading the shift lever with your toe (raise the lever) and when you want to shift, quickly twist the throttle closed and then full-throttle again. Don't use the clutch. The transmission will shift into the next gear. This is a racing technique known as "pre-loading" the shifter. It should shift as quickly as you can turn the throttle. It's not the best thing for the clutch and transmission, but racing MC's get complete rebuilds frequently and parts inspected and replaced.
Inside the Engine:
When you step on the shift lever, the shift linkage turns the shift drum slightly and causes shifting forks to move. Shifting forks mate with shift drum via dowels and grooves. The shift forks move sliding gears to engage the gear's dogs with its mating gear's cogs.
When a gear is “forced†to engage another gear, as if trying to shift from Neutral to the next gear, expensive damages may result. This causes premature transmission and clutch parts wear and failure.
Hauling in Neutral:
Tie-down straps secure our motorcycles and ATV's well when used properly during transportation. We tend to use a variety of materials and things to secure motorcycles and ATV's when transporting.
When the motorcycle/ATV is not properly secured, it may move during transport. If the transmission is placed in gear, shift forks flex under the load and weight of the motorcycle as it moves. Same goes with the clutch and drive chain. These parts are easily damaged. Place the transmission into Neutral and properly secure motorcycle with quality tie-down straps.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gear Shifting Faulty:
Doesn't go into gear; shift pedal doesn't return:
Clutch not disengaging
Shift fork bent or seized
Gear stuck on the shaft
Gear position lever binding
Shift return spring weak or broken
Shift return spring pin loose
Shift mechanism arm spring broken
Shift mechanism arm broken
Shift pawl broken
Jumps out of gear:
Shift fork worn
Gear groove worn
Gear dogs and/or dog holes worn
Shift drum groove worn
Gear positioning lever spring weak or broken
Shift fork pin worn
Drive shaft, output shaft, and/or gear splines worn
Over-shifts:
Gear positioning lever spring weak or broken
Shift mechanism arm spring broken
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Motorcycle Transmissions, Care and Feeding... by Marty Rood
There are certain techniques which should be adhered to when shifting a motorcycle transmission and the Valkyrie is no different. If the "dogs" are not quite seated all the way in any particular gear, a motorcycle's transmission will tend to very rapidly find a false neutral and then either grab the gear again or downshift into the next lower gear. This will create a very jerky, noisy condition which usually scares the rider into thinking the
bike is about ready to explode.
This article is to show how to stop this "false neutral" from occurring, but if one finds him/her self in that situation; one should decrease speed to almost stopped with the clutch pulled in and then "stab" it into the next lower gear with a quick, firm stab. Trying to do it slowly and tentatively is terribly destructive to the gears and will potentially break off teeth (cogs) as well as rounding off the corners of the "dogs" (very large cogs which actually do the gear engaging).
The most common reason for finding a false neutral is being tentative with one's shifts. One should not attempt to "feel" the shift from one gear to the next. Shifting should be done in an assertive manner with a quick "stab". Doing it slowly so as to not harm the internal shifting mechanics is one of the hardest, worst things one can do to the transmission's shifting assy. The transmission is designed to take considerable abuse due to the differentials in toe pressures from different riders plus the fact that there are no "synchro's" to "feel" through.
There are very large "teeth" associated with each gear called "dogs" (usually from four to twelve per gear), which actually do the engaging for each gear. The gears themselves are always engaged. Since the dogs are so large, they have flat ends which can come in contact with each other and stop the shifting forks from making a full shift. This is the situation which occurs when finding a "false neutral". The clearances are so tight that very often the trainy will pop in and out of the gear it's attempting to engage.
Tentative, or slowly trying to feel into the next gear, will round off the corners of these dogs and thereby allow a trainy to pop in and out of the gear. Due to the mechanics of the shifting design; a positive assertive shift
is necessary to fully engage the gear. Don't try to "feel" the way into the next gear as one would do in a car while shifting. This "feel" in "cages" is to allow the synchronous mesh to equalize the shaft speeds of the two gears before engagement. On any motorcycle, including the Valk, the shift should be quick and firm because there are no synchros and the gears are already
engaged.
One way to greatly diminish the shifting "clunk" when going from a lower gear to the next higher gear is to slightly preload the shifter with your toe just before bringing in the clutch lever and then as the clutch lever is squeezed, disengaging the clutch; firmly uplift on the toe to reach and fully engage the next gear. This "trick" almost eliminates the clunky shifts so commonly complained about by newcomers to the Valk's shifting intricacies.
Downshifting smoothly is merely done by practicing getting the engine rpm to match the shaft rpm when the clutch is disengaged just before downshifting and letting the clutch back out in the next lower gear. This can be done so smoothly that a passenger wouldn't notice the downshift at all with practice.
Downshifting in this manner also reduces rear tire wear since most of the wear to one's rear tire is done when downshifting and braking due to the coefficient of friction being compromised during this procedure unless it's done very smoothly. When the coefficient of friction is overcome by engine braking, in combination with rear brake pedal being applied; the tire instantaneously temporarily "locks up". The rider is usually oblivious to the occurrence of the rear tire locking up unless it's extreme because it is so temporary; but it, nevertheless, is quite common. If this is allowed to occur in each downshifted gear every time one comes to a stop; the accumulative effect is a greatly reduced total mileage realized on the rear tire before it's completely worn out.
Since most braking should be accomplished using the front brake (at least 75%); the rear brake should be used very conservatively on a routine basis when downshifting (using the above described technique). The extra mileage realized on the rear tire will save a lot of unnecessary replacement expense.
By Mark Shively
Slipping out of Gear:
Trying to mate slower spinning sliding gears with very high spinning fixed gears is hard on the transmission. If the transmission is slipping out of 1st or 2nd gears, the dogs and cogs are rounded (worn) and must be replaced.
Race Shifting:
If it won't shift from 1st into 2nd at or near redline, try pre-loading the shift lever with your toe (raise the lever) and when you want to shift, quickly twist the throttle closed and then full-throttle again. Don't use the clutch. The transmission will shift into the next gear. This is a racing technique known as "pre-loading" the shifter. It should shift as quickly as you can turn the throttle. It's not the best thing for the clutch and transmission, but racing MC's get complete rebuilds frequently and parts inspected and replaced.
Inside the Engine:
When you step on the shift lever, the shift linkage turns the shift drum slightly and causes shifting forks to move. Shifting forks mate with shift drum via dowels and grooves. The shift forks move sliding gears to engage the gear's dogs with its mating gear's cogs.
When a gear is “forced†to engage another gear, as if trying to shift from Neutral to the next gear, expensive damages may result. This causes premature transmission and clutch parts wear and failure.
Hauling in Neutral:
Tie-down straps secure our motorcycles and ATV's well when used properly during transportation. We tend to use a variety of materials and things to secure motorcycles and ATV's when transporting.
When the motorcycle/ATV is not properly secured, it may move during transport. If the transmission is placed in gear, shift forks flex under the load and weight of the motorcycle as it moves. Same goes with the clutch and drive chain. These parts are easily damaged. Place the transmission into Neutral and properly secure motorcycle with quality tie-down straps.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gear Shifting Faulty:
Doesn't go into gear; shift pedal doesn't return:
Clutch not disengaging
Shift fork bent or seized
Gear stuck on the shaft
Gear position lever binding
Shift return spring weak or broken
Shift return spring pin loose
Shift mechanism arm spring broken
Shift mechanism arm broken
Shift pawl broken
Jumps out of gear:
Shift fork worn
Gear groove worn
Gear dogs and/or dog holes worn
Shift drum groove worn
Gear positioning lever spring weak or broken
Shift fork pin worn
Drive shaft, output shaft, and/or gear splines worn
Over-shifts:
Gear positioning lever spring weak or broken
Shift mechanism arm spring broken
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Motorcycle Transmissions, Care and Feeding... by Marty Rood
There are certain techniques which should be adhered to when shifting a motorcycle transmission and the Valkyrie is no different. If the "dogs" are not quite seated all the way in any particular gear, a motorcycle's transmission will tend to very rapidly find a false neutral and then either grab the gear again or downshift into the next lower gear. This will create a very jerky, noisy condition which usually scares the rider into thinking the
bike is about ready to explode.
This article is to show how to stop this "false neutral" from occurring, but if one finds him/her self in that situation; one should decrease speed to almost stopped with the clutch pulled in and then "stab" it into the next lower gear with a quick, firm stab. Trying to do it slowly and tentatively is terribly destructive to the gears and will potentially break off teeth (cogs) as well as rounding off the corners of the "dogs" (very large cogs which actually do the gear engaging).
The most common reason for finding a false neutral is being tentative with one's shifts. One should not attempt to "feel" the shift from one gear to the next. Shifting should be done in an assertive manner with a quick "stab". Doing it slowly so as to not harm the internal shifting mechanics is one of the hardest, worst things one can do to the transmission's shifting assy. The transmission is designed to take considerable abuse due to the differentials in toe pressures from different riders plus the fact that there are no "synchro's" to "feel" through.
There are very large "teeth" associated with each gear called "dogs" (usually from four to twelve per gear), which actually do the engaging for each gear. The gears themselves are always engaged. Since the dogs are so large, they have flat ends which can come in contact with each other and stop the shifting forks from making a full shift. This is the situation which occurs when finding a "false neutral". The clearances are so tight that very often the trainy will pop in and out of the gear it's attempting to engage.
Tentative, or slowly trying to feel into the next gear, will round off the corners of these dogs and thereby allow a trainy to pop in and out of the gear. Due to the mechanics of the shifting design; a positive assertive shift
is necessary to fully engage the gear. Don't try to "feel" the way into the next gear as one would do in a car while shifting. This "feel" in "cages" is to allow the synchronous mesh to equalize the shaft speeds of the two gears before engagement. On any motorcycle, including the Valk, the shift should be quick and firm because there are no synchros and the gears are already
engaged.
One way to greatly diminish the shifting "clunk" when going from a lower gear to the next higher gear is to slightly preload the shifter with your toe just before bringing in the clutch lever and then as the clutch lever is squeezed, disengaging the clutch; firmly uplift on the toe to reach and fully engage the next gear. This "trick" almost eliminates the clunky shifts so commonly complained about by newcomers to the Valk's shifting intricacies.
Downshifting smoothly is merely done by practicing getting the engine rpm to match the shaft rpm when the clutch is disengaged just before downshifting and letting the clutch back out in the next lower gear. This can be done so smoothly that a passenger wouldn't notice the downshift at all with practice.
Downshifting in this manner also reduces rear tire wear since most of the wear to one's rear tire is done when downshifting and braking due to the coefficient of friction being compromised during this procedure unless it's done very smoothly. When the coefficient of friction is overcome by engine braking, in combination with rear brake pedal being applied; the tire instantaneously temporarily "locks up". The rider is usually oblivious to the occurrence of the rear tire locking up unless it's extreme because it is so temporary; but it, nevertheless, is quite common. If this is allowed to occur in each downshifted gear every time one comes to a stop; the accumulative effect is a greatly reduced total mileage realized on the rear tire before it's completely worn out.
Since most braking should be accomplished using the front brake (at least 75%); the rear brake should be used very conservatively on a routine basis when downshifting (using the above described technique). The extra mileage realized on the rear tire will save a lot of unnecessary replacement expense.
semperfi
Registered
Yes, I found out the hard way!
Thanks for the help. Thats good info.... I sure didnt know try'in to shift easy is hard on the trans.... Now just to add to the questions , I am keeping an eye out for a spare trans. to get undercut, when this is installed , does the head etc have to come off? If so I think when I do one mod. I should do them all...I've been wanting to get a bore job and have the head worked. I kicked up a nice head and upper cylinders... I'd like to get 180 + hp (1363 )so I can have some good power without heating and starting problems..
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