Starter Problem? 2005 - Anyone?

[steelhead]

<span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>Update is later down the screen. Your feedback appreciated. (12th reply, that is) </span>

The problem is exactly like this on a 2005 Hayabusa:

Engine is warm (20 km of driving), running for 30 minutes in traffic. Using electric vest.  Turn it off. If starting from first gear on warm engine, Busa has a hard time cranking (like it has a low battery sound). Put it in neutral, starts (cranks) easier (like a stronger, but still noticeably weaker, battery sound).

If engine is totally cold, will start (crank) from first gear or neutral easily (with strong battery sound).

Had this problem since winter with the electric vest. Battery must be charging, but no battery tender to replenish deficit except thru riding, and problem is not as noticeable when I'm not using the electric vest.

Battery test or does this sound like alternator or starter?
If battery test, what should I be looking for (technical details appreciated).

What is the most common problem or cause of this? What could it be should it be more serious?

Thanks
SteelHead

 

[CAT3]

Sounds like battery to me. When you say electric vest, are you referring to a battery wrap to keep it warm? If so, I've had bad experience with battery blankets killing batteries prematurely. I'd have battery test done, and if that good they should be able to check charging without much if any delay...same cables.

Charlie

 

[dadofthree]

(CAT3 @ Dec. 12 2006,09:16) Sounds like battery to me. When you say electric vest, are you referring to a battery wrap to keep it warm? If so, I've had bad experience with battery blankets killing batteries prematurely. I'd have battery test done, and if that good they should be able to check charging without much if any delay...same cables.

Charlie

+1

 

[bitabur]

Your battery might be stronger after sitting because it's ion surface hasn't been active recently... the reason it cranks easier in neutral is probably because there is some drag on the clutch plates even when it's fully disengaged. When it's starting cold the battery might be strong enough to turn it over quickly without encountering this problem.

If it wasn't for the vest having an effect, I'd be skeptical, but my guess is that your battery is slowly dying.

Alternator/charging system doesn't make sense because your bike is getting charged... starter problem doesn't make sense because it starts fine cold.

Unfortunately there isnt a very good way I know of to test your battery with simple equipment. Testing your charging system is easy if you have a multimeter, but again, I don't think thats where the problem is.

I'd say get a new battery... a stronger one preferably.

 

[BusaCruise]

get a BT Jr for about 30.00USD .....

if the battery isn't already hurt...it will resolve the weakness.

being "in traffic" for 30 miutes....not sure to what extreme .....but pay attention to your clutch as well. sounds like the plates could be a tad warped or the springs a little weakend from the heat....also depends on how hard you ride.

 

[BusaCruise]

remeber that while in traffic...the charging system does not "charge" under 3~4K RPMS ......so your electric addons will kill it.

 

[mymaster]

battery

 

[GSXcite]

(BusaCruise @ Dec. 12 2006,14:20) remeber that while in traffic...the charging system does not "charge" under 3~4K RPMS ......so your electric addons will kill it.

+1

 

[BA BUSA]

Motor has to be running 4000-5000rpm's + to charge the battery properly

 

[steelhead]

Thanks guys. I am heading over to the mechanics these next few days. Now I'll have a better informed opinion of the situation.

Your advice appreciated:
Cat3, Dadofthree, bitabur, BusaCruise, mymaster, GSXcite, BABUSA.

SteelHead

 

[CAT3]

Please update your finding so we can all benefit. Glad to be part of the .Org family.

Charlie

 

[steelhead]

<span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>Update (your feedback appreciated</span>

Battery is good, generator good, too.  Not fully charging due to, what I think, is the electric vest.

However, latest OBSERVATION:

I noticed that when I start the bike in first gear (cold), I almost feel the Hayabusa tugging forward a little. I can actually feel the bike slightly (ever so slightly) pushing, even though I'm pulling the clutch all the way in. Is this normal?  This might explain why it has a hard time starting on a warm engine with a low battery.  

 

[CAT3]

Clutch wearing out. How many miles? If it were a cable clutch I'd say adjust the cable at the case, then re-adjust your free play at the lever...but with the hydraulic, I'd say it may be time to check on a new clutch plate/friction set. Easy fix if thats all it is... When was the last oil change? If friction modifiers in the oil are deteriorated badly, it can cause the frictions to drag, making the bike creep with clutch fully disengaged. But it would take some really nasty, abused sludge to do that.

 

[bitabur]

If the clutch was wearing out it would be less and less likely to rub as the clutch is held in. Stiffening clutch springs, or some kind of warp in the plates seems most likely.

I don't know any of the specifics about the clutch hydraulic setup so I can't comment as to whether that could cause issues or not.

 

[Devil Dog]

great thread...i was thinking about one of them electric vests too. Prolly not now!

 

[Red05]

The clutch dragging with the clutch pulled in sounds more like a ahydraulic issue...either cylinder worn out or maybe low on fluid? If it's the latter, look for wetness because it's probably leaking.

 

[steelhead]

(CAT3 @ Dec. 13 2006,11:40) Clutch wearing out.  How many miles?  If it were a cable clutch I'd say adjust the cable at the case, then re-adjust your free play at the lever...but with the hydraulic, I'd say it may be time to check on a new clutch plate/friction set. Easy fix if thats all it is...  When was the last oil change?  If friction modifiers in the oil are deteriorated badly, it can cause the frictions to drag, making the bike creep with clutch fully disengaged.  But it would take some really nasty, abused sludge to do that.

2005 Busa with 10300 miles. Oil changed about every 2500miles. Will ask the mechanic to take a look at it.

Thanks and will update!

 

[CAT3]

Agree with the hydraulic side, or warpage or parts being more than the clutch...sorry kind of tired on that reply

 

[kml]

I have no problem with my electric vest draining the battery. I wired an in line switch in the vest cord. I shut the vest off if the bike is running for long periods below 4 thousand rpms. When the bike is parked in the garage the battery is hooked up to a battery tender using the very same two prong trailer plug the vest uses. I use my vest in April, May, October and November, so it gets lots of use. My bike is an '03 and the battery is the original, and still cranking strong.

cheers
ken

 

[BusaCruise]

one thing of notice...if the bike is stock ...chances are good that the clutch fluid has never been changed?
those miles equate to thousands and thousands of lever pulls....

for some reason the slave cylinder (fluid side) gets gunked with trash ( just the heat cooking the fluid itself.?..I dunno, but it's there) and really should be flushed periodically. it could also be shavings from piston area of the resvoir.

it's really an end to end check that needs to be made....from clutch lever to clutch springs!
you may have one condition that brought on a second one!
there are just too many possibilities.