Stoner versus Valentino

2

2hip

Registered
All of ya know that Stoner left Ducati last year for Repsol Honda. He has won 5 championships this year. Valentino was injured last year riding for Yamaha and now rides with Ducati..and hasn't returned to his domination of MotoGP.
Out of the 10 MotoGP races this year I don't think Valentino has finished higher than 3rd or 4th. I am sure it was a big score for Ducati to get the most dominant Italian racer of his era on the Italian bike. But if you could watch the Honda's just pull the Ducati it was just plain to see. Between turns 4-5 there is a nice straightaway...and the Honda's just dominanted the Ducs.
Even during all of the the practice runs, Chuck and I noticed that the Hondas just appeared wicked fast. Do you guys think that Valentino has reached his zenith and now a descending star?
 
Just because other stars are ascending doesn't mean he is descending...

Posted with my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk.
 
The Ducs just don't run. Its that simple. They do not turn the RPMS like the honda. Ducs got gear ratio to HP problems just stand there and listen to them. Sounds like a big retarded fart going down the track.:laugh:
 
Rossi just needs a new ride; he's still got the skills and the ballz...but then again, if they are paying him millions and people are rushing out to buy 1098's because he's riding them, who needs to win?
 
The Duc's no good. Stoner bailed because the front was vague. Rossi has the same problem, as does Hayden. Rossi is now on next year's 1000 with the motor destroked to 800.

My theory is that Stoner's mystery illness was him telling Ducati to fix it, because he wasn't going to ride it.

The Honda's are good. They have a tranny that's supposed to shift as fast as a DCT, have a chassis that provides good feedback and are fast.

Rossi is getting old and beat up. He still has game, but his wizardry is not enough to overcome the Duc's shortcomings. I think we will have to wait another year or two to discover what really motivated him to move to Ducati.
 
Rossi is on a different bike with a different type of motor, weight, powerband, etc. He will be a force once he learns the new bike.
 
I think we will have to wait until next season to see if they can get the Ducati up to speed.
I agree those Honda's are fast I remember last season when they were leaving everybody behind on the straights. I wonder how Rossi would do on the Honda?.
 
Everybody speculates that bout Rossi as soon as he has a prob (health/bike or anything else), we just expect too much from him based on his reputation.
Rossi is pushing Ducati bosses hard to do away with their trademark stressed member frame, Ducati is reluctant coz they have doing that so long. But now considering going the way of the twin spar frame just to get some handling outta the thing.
 
Hobo said:
Everybody speculates that bout Rossi as soon as he has a prob (health/bike or anything else), we just expect too much from him based on his reputation.
Rossi is pushing Ducati bosses hard to do away with their trademark stressed member frame, Ducati is reluctant coz they have doing that so long. But now considering going the way of the twin spar frame just to get some handling outta the thing.
Click to expand...

Exactly! The GP11 is plenty fast, it's managing it that is their issues, along with some sorted other issues. New frame is/will be in the works. It's also going to take a lot of re-thinking on Mr. Rossi and Mr. Burgess. They have been tailoring the bike to Rossi's riding style and need to adjust the riding style to the bike.
 
Rossi still lies 5th overall in the championship. He is not winning races, but he is consistent. There is slow progression, will be interesting to see how things develop with Ducati.
 
honda was/is so desperate for a championship they were gonna do anything to get one before the change next year. just like basically having 4 repsol bikes out there. yes, one had san carlo graphics on it but its a repsol bike.

rossi is rossi. he has won championships on a honda and then took yamaha to the pennicale on a bike no one could win with.
stoner is just a lightweight guy on the fastest bike. even when he won it on the duc it was the fastest bike(in the straights). there are guys that are faster but are injured. laguna was a good example. if lorenzo and pedrosa wernt fighting injuries they are 1-2 in that race. i also believe that if spies had gotten any kind of start he would have been challenging for the podium.

dont get me wrong stoner is a great rider but they all are. none are in the class of rossi, sorry. put them all on identical bikes and see what happens.
but to answer your question i think rossi will be back next year

my worthless .02
 
Just remember a Great Rider on a very good bike, CAN'T beat a Great Rider on a Great Bike or a Very Good Rider on a Great Bike. And the Honda this year IS A GREAT BIKE. Just look at their finishing order. Generally, they're all are in the TOP 6 positions. And unfortunately for Rossi, the Duc isn't even a Very Good Bike. That's why his skills can put it in the top 4 and Hayden shows where it's performance really is :thumbsup:
 
2hip said:
Even during all of the the practice runs, Chuck and I noticed that the Hondas just appeared wicked fast. Do you guys think that Valentino has reached his zenith and now a descending star?
Click to expand...

A complexity of issues not so easy to funnel down into few words so i won't attempt beyond this. The Honda's speed was no faster or engine more potent than the Ducati GP8 non big bang engine. Honda realized they were behind the game on electronics proving that when they remove an almost air of omnipotence and allow some rider input , better results can be gained.

Enter that air again for Ducati . I started a topic about the GP5 Ducati a few days ago in hopes it would spark conversation, that went no-where . I have alot of respect for J Burgess and his abilities . He with Rossi removed that air in the Ducati garage < along with one manager being moved out > and apparently is moving Ducati's ""live by the sword, die by it"" out of the way for a new era . For the good of racing i hope they pull something off so the Japanese don't dominate the grid but Hayden was 27 seconds behind the winner at the German GP , a track he knows well . The way things are going, the GP12 will not be enough more package than the GP11 is. The big bang motor just isn't the fire breather it was before the GP10 model year .

Sweeping change for Ducati seems in order . I hope they don't paint theirselves into a corner financially trying this and that only to find they can't spend more money on the helicopters needed to fly them out of the situation come 2012 season.

It's obvious switching back n forth from a Superbike to a GP bike is not so easy but if the matured John Hopkins comes back for the rest of the season post Brno , we might both see how good a race bike the Suzuki is and what a piece the big bang Ducati is if Hopkins beats all the Duc's . He's done it before.
 
I think next year when they go back to 1000's will change it up some. Look at AMA, Suzuki wins all the time beating Honda's. Suzuki nor BMW chose to waste big $$ to create a special engine just for MotoGP and instead focus on series that used something closer to what they intend to sell to the general market.
 
I agree with all the folks who say "It's not the rider it's the bike". Rossi is a great rider with 6 MotoGp World Championships to his name.

Stoner 1
 
That was my point exactly. Who doesn't love a winner? If you could see Ben Spies on his Yami take Valentino pre apex at turn five you just knew that the Ducati didn't have the power to keep up with the Hondas or Yami. It is just hard to see Valentino subjugated to a position that he can't compete due to lack of horse...
 
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