Tuning options/opinions

[Iceman_2770]

Ok so I'm halfway through me turbo build.
I spoke to the person i was going to get to tune my bike once finished. I asked him which way was best to tune my bike.

Flash tune std ecu
Or power commander.

I would like to do the flash as I believe the stock ect has more parameters then the PCV
but he said that once the stock ecu is flashed there is no putting it back to standard.

Can I download the stock setup and save it?
Or would it be best to install a PCV?

My bike is basically standard. And I'm only wanting to run 6psi boost at the start till I can rebuild the motor with better internals.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I would speak to another tuner. There are some very experienced tuners on this board (not me, I know very little if anything) and I went through the same choices as you and the initial tuner I thought I would go with gave me some information that conflicted with what others had been saying. There are 2 flags that what you said in your post come up to what little knowledge I have.
1. 6 psi on a gen II. I do not think this is recommended with stock internals, somebody else will have to explain why but I believe it is because the compression on a gen II is way higher than a I. I think most start out with 4 psi on a gen II.
2. You will find that the level of opinions varies as to "what works best" is really what the tuner prefers. There is probably no best way, only the way that they like to do it. But you have a gen II which has a more user-freindly ecu than a gen I and I do not think you should be concerned about "not going back to original". The stock maps are available online and probably in folders of tuners on here. I would see that as a non-issue and I would say that since the gen II has a better ecu than a I, why even consider a power commander? Even if you do get a power commander, the ecu will need to be flashed for the tune anyway. Sounds like duplication of effort to me. Again, just my limited information.
I went with a power commander as the tuner I chose believed that the pc5 software was quicker to adjust and he was very comfortable with that along with his complaints of the flash time of the gen I ecu taking too long. In reality, he was a whiz at the pc5 software. Many tuners are a whiz at the ecu editor. If I had to do over again, I would have chosen a different tuner which is why I think you should call around and seek another opinion. BUT, I went in knowing that a power commander 5, stand alone, can only do fuel modification which is why it really isnt even nearly as powerful as the ecu. If I had a gen II, I would seek an ecu whiz.

edit: standard is generic anyway as each bike should have its own unique tune which is why folks with bone stock motors go to a dyno tuner to have the bike set up as efficient as possible. Every bike and motor is unique and standard is simply a term for generic factory tune which may or may not work to the maximum for your bike. I bet he is leading you into buying a pc for his familiarity of the power commander software.

 

[oldgixxer]

1. 6 psi on a gen II. I do not think this is recommended with stock internals, somebody else will have to explain why but I believe it is because the compression on a gen II is way higher than a I. I think most start out with 4 psi on a gen II.

Stock internal Gen2 is limited to 4psi due to the very light valve spring pressure(because Ti valves).

 

[Kevin Jones]

Its like 13:1 compression too isnt it? 25 years ago, that was the difference between a street car and a trailered one. If you wanted a street car, 11:1 max and even at that you had to retard the timing until you got to the back woods racetrack and then dumped in the octane boost. Now with the way they redesigned heads to accommodate that and run pump gas, amazes me still. So, basically thicker head gasket, some bowl work, springs n valves and he would be good to go. That isnt catastrophic moneywise.

 

[Kevin Jones]

OP, think about the things that I didnt think or know about either. For instance, stock wheelbase. I imagine you are at stock wheelbase. Does your gen II stock wheelie off the line? When you hit it in the ass and the boost comes in at 6 or 7k, things are going to happen quick. If those things are the wheel coming up into your face, you are going to have such little time to control that. Boost isnt like straight motor which is what I grew up on. Letting off doesnt instantly mean the motor does. Roads arent the same either, sometimes it may spin, sometimes it might peel the front wheel up. Sometimes the same road doesnt act the same. You might be going 55 and nail it and that thing might smack your faceshield with the windscreen. I dont know.

 

[POWERHOUSE]

You should only consider tuning options and/or opinions from QUALIFIED dyno tuners. It takes at least two years of tuning NA bikes to become competent. Everybody thinks they're a star coming out of the box. Experience is what counts here. Do not entertain opinions from those who have not spent one minute tuning anything, but seem to know everything about nothing. Once you find that veteran tuner, go with what that person suggests. Make sure he has tuned turbos before and you are not his first or second date. Go miles out of your way if you have to, you have many years of reliable riding at stake . . . .

 

[Boosted Cycle Perf]

Yes 4psi is the max on an stock gen 2. Oldgixxer hit the nail on the head as for why.

And ecu tune all the way. Who's kit are you running? If it's an rcc kit, it should of came with the jumpers for the ecu flash, and the 3 bar map sensor.

 

[OZBooster]

Yep on a gen 2 flash tune is the simplest way to go with great results
go to ecueditor.com and download the program and try it out , you will see all its capabilitys
flash back to standard is just as easy , the std maps come with the program, or you can download and save the map in your ecu before you start
If your setup is anything like mine you can have a copy of my any of maps as starter , i have a few different combos of motor, turbo setup and secondary injector size i have setup and tuned
and the starter map in editor is not a bad beginning either

 

[Iceman_2770]

boosted -
I'm actually building my own kit. but have on the way a 3 bar map sensor. I have built my exhaust manifold and got the oil lines run. working on the dump pipe and exhaust system at the moment.

as for the tuner. I trust him very much. has years of experience building and tuning. but I think he just wants to do it that way to make it easier for himself. he is willing to flash the ECU just does not recommend it. I might have to look around and see if I ca find a tuner with experience in flash tuning the ECU.

kevin -
yes the bike is stock length and it will be staying that way. as I love getting up into the hills and twisties. As for the bike wheel standing. I have plenty of ballast myself and who doesn't like a good wheelie.. whom ever I get to tune it I will get the so the transition is a little calmer I don't want nothing the bang all the power. a nice smooth roll I of the power is what I'm going to tune for.

thanks for the info

ozbooster -- do you know anyone with experience flashing ECUs? Sydney or Melbourne based?

 

[oldgixxer]

whom ever I get to tune it I will get the so the transition is a little calmer I don't want nothing the bang all the power. a nice smooth roll I of the power is what I'm going to tune for.

How do you tune for that? I dont think the tune is responsible for how the boost comes on,but I could be wrong. If that were the case I wouldnt have spent big money on an AMS-1000

 

[GNBRETT]

How do you tune for that? I dont think the tune is responsible for how the boost comes on,but I could be wrong. If that were the case I wouldnt have spent big money on an AMS-1000

yea I think he's confused with how N20 hits maybe. a Turbo will make big power as soon as u go WOT but as stated you will need a good BC if u want to tame the power and of course a tuner who can set up ur AMS 1000/2000 correctly in each gear.

 

[Boosted Cycle Perf]

How do you tune for that? I dont think the tune is responsible for how the boost comes on,but I could be wrong. If that were the case I wouldnt have spent big money on an AMS-1000

It can be done, we do it with the turbo cars. Add ignition timing, and keep the afr a touch leaner then usual before boost helps with spool.

 

[GNBRETT]

It can be done, we do it with the turbo cars. Add ignition timing, and keep the afr a touch leaner then usual before boost helps with spool.

yea it can done on an XFI for a car cause it has boost control options but its no where near as good as an AMS for either a car or a bike.

 

[OZBooster]

No one in Melbourne i would trust a turbo to
i am nearer anyway ,not a business, mostly setup for my race bikes , but will do turbo bikes as most tuning shops have no experiance and lead the owner all over the place because they just dont understand the needs
Sydney would be Karl at RC
otherwise you have Brett in Perth at Pace or Tokyo motorsport

 

[oldgixxer]

yea I think he's confused with how N20 hits maybe. a Turbo will make big power as soon as u go WOT but as stated you will need a good BC if u want to tame the power and of course a tuner who can set up ur AMS 1000/2000 correctly in each gear.

Ya,thats the impression I had too.???

It can be done, we do it with the turbo cars. Add ignition timing, and keep the afr a touch leaner then usual before boost helps with spool.

Yes Sir,I knew they could tame the power/torque with timing/etc on the big HP cars so the DCT tranny's/etc live longer(amongst other things)but most of them run a Motec. I just didnt think it could be that noticeable on a bike running only 6lbs;thats not really a big hit compared to something like 15-20psi all at once. But good to know,thanks Rob

No one in Melbourne i would trust a turbo to
i am nearer anyway ,not a business, mostly setup for my race bikes , but will do turbo bikes as most tuning shops have no experiance and lead the owner all over the place

Thread over! Bring your bike to OZBooster;you are very lucky to have him offer to tune your bike. This man is a guru....

 

[Iceman_2770]

Hi Ozbooster
ill give you a call once I have my plenum finished. unless I get down your way before then.

 

[OZBooster]

Thanks Rob, dunno about guru,
Experianced, opinionated and spends too much time at the computer probably covers it better

Ice if your down this way i can show you a range of setups , 3 fairly different builds here at the moment

 

[POWERHOUSE]

Another happy ending!