Twisties training?

[stkr00]

I think I've put this in the correct forum, so here goes...

I'm fairly new to the busa, but have been riding for years. I love twistie roads, but would like to become better at leaning, and possibly kneedraggin. I'm looking for some pointers on how to learn the knee draggin techniques.

I've got my tires scrubbed in except for about the outer 3/4" of the tread. I'm comfortable leaning my H-D until I'm draggin the floorboards, but it scares me to think about low-siding the busa. I just don't want to mess her up.

I'm twistie limited in S/E Wisconsin, but we do have some nice rustic/scenic roads. I've managed to take some curves posted as 20mph safe speed at around 45-50 mph, but still didn't get to the outer tread. Somewhat un-nerving to think of the speed you would have to carry to require the full lean.

Any suggestions, tips, or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[The Oracle]

Ok, let's start off by saying, be very careful.  Dragging a knee on the street is some tricky business.  Remember that there are guard rails, little old ladies, pick-em-up trucks, trees, dead animals, live animals, and many other assorted DEADLY obstacles out there.

First rule...  NEVER go into the oncoming traffic lane.  Sounds easy...  It ain't.  In your mind, you have to make the road surface END at the yellow line.

From there, you need to practice hanging off.  Many people don't hang off enough, and many hang off too much.  You only want to shift a bit.  Think of your butt crack as being on the seat but your cheek off.  Shift your weight forward a bit, so that your leg is against the tank.  Don't use your hands and arms to support your weight while hanging off.  Only use your legs (which will include using lower back, and abs).  Also, you wanna support some of your weight (especially on the inside of the turn) with your legs.  I.e. stand off of the seat a tiny bit.  This will make your thighs sore the first couple of days of practice if done correctly.  Practice this for a long time.  You want to be very smooth.  And, make sure you shift your weight and body before or as you are applying brakes NEVER after.  Many people adjust late and disturb the bike's suspension going into a turn...  This is a no-no.

I cannot stress smoothness enough! The key to a fast hard leaning turn is being SMOOTH.  No sudden movements or adjustments.  You need to know your lean angle and reference points for braking, downshifting, turn in point, etc. like the back of your hand.  The smoother you are, the more lean angle she can take.

Also practice steering faster.  This will allow you to go a bit later into a turn getting a better apex position for many turns.

The biggest problem for me when leaned over this far is steering inputs.  Practice makes better!

Oh...  And, go visit Keith Code's cornering school at:
http://www.superbikeschool.com
The closest they come to you is Blackhawk Farms, Il.  Nothing is as good as an excellent class and instructors!

And, remember that patience is the key. Take your time, go slow and learn the correct line first... It will come in due time. You won't be expecting it, so that first time down will be a bit of a surprise.

Also, there are many members here that take turns better and faster than me... Nickslick, BigGar, Twisted, BSrigley, BusaHigg, BusaGod, and SledHead are a few that come to mind... Hopefully they will chime in.

Finally, I can't express how important a class is. Those guys teach so much more on the track in a day or two than you will learn all year on the street by yourself!

Hope this helped,
Rip



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[The Oracle]

Also a word about the chicken strips... I have burned mine completely off, but BSrigley still kicks my azz in the twisties. He is leaning over farther than me... So, when the strips are used up, the bike still has more. This bike will lean farther than you could imagine. It is sick! And even sicker to think we do this on public roads!

BE CAREFUL brotha!

 

[*LETMSMOKE*]

All I got to say is BEEEEEE CAREFUL!! I have not goten close to draggin knees, but I feel like I get Down pretty well. The tires are showin wear to the outter edge. I love twisties, come on down we got some round here

 

[stkr00]

Oracle - Thanks for the input, and the link. I read through just about all the information on Kieth's site, and if I do attend a school, it will probably be his. Just have to save enough money to do the two day course with bike rental. $$$$$

I understand the concept of coutersteering vs. weight shifting. I ride pretty good, but I just don't want to teach myself cornering the wrong way. It's always easier if you learn it right the first time. Kieth's "NO BS Bike" is what it's all about. I understand the gyroscopic effect of the wheel/tire associated with steering inputs by relating it to the gyroscopic effect of an airplane propeller that I had to learn getting my pilot's license.

I think I'll just take it slow, and aim for perfection rather than speed. Once the skills are second nature, then the speed will soon follow.

Letmsmoke - Thank you also. I'll be carefull...I've got a wife and daughter to think of.

Thanks again,
Jim

 

[The Oracle]

You can also checkout these books:

A Twist of the Wrist - by: Keith Code
A Twist of the Wrist II - by: Keith Code
The Soft Science of Road Racing Motorcycles - by: Keith Code
Sport Riding Techniques - by: Nick Ienatsch

And, the "Sportbiking" books (2 of them) by: Gary S. Jaehne are pretty awesome too.

Read, practice, and go to class. It is worth the time and $$$$!

 

[stkr00]

Thanks again.

I just need to make some outriggers like Kieth's slide bike and I'll be fine. It will force you to hold your line since you'll take up the whole damn lane . j/k

read/practice/repeat...got it!

 

[busagod]

I'd say, find a parking lot with no gravel, set up cones. Start out slow. Slowly increase your speed and lean angle. You will begin to feel more and more confortable. Good luck and be careful!

 

[erionblade]

Weight your inside peg(push down with your foot),
The farther off you hang the less the bike has to lean so it allows your contact patch to stay in place.
Make sure to lean your upper body off as far as your butt.
Loosen your outside hand on your grip(you will be surprised how much your two hands fight against each other).
Look ahead, try and find the exit of the turn.
Smooth on the throttle and accelerate when you start to straighten out.



What a RUSH!!!!!

 

[stkr00]

busagod & erionblade - Thanks for the input

I'll probably wait until it warms up in the spring since the tires and the roads are cold as h3ll up here. I want to make sure I've got good conditions first.

Maybe I could just get a bunch of high density foam and glue it all over the bike . That way if I low side it, all I have to do is glue on more. That sounds like a plan.

Does Zaino take glue residue off ?

Thanks again for your help,
Jim

 

[Kento-Moto]

pretty much what the other guys said I also have Keith Codes books full of very insightful stuff but also a lot of full on race stuff that you probly wont use on the street. Just take all the info for what its worth and get out and ride, practice and above all have fun. I personally dont like to ride very agressive on unfamiliar roads. Someone else here recommended to me once to scout a road first before tippin it in & over too hard. Make a couple passes in the same corner and get the feel... practice makes allmost perfect.

 

[busagod]

Hey guy, another good book that may help is Total Control: High Performance Street Riding Techniques by Lee Parks. You can pick it up at you local Barns & Noble.  I found it very helpful.  Oh one more thing,  when you get use ta the busa...be careful jumping on a buds blade.  You just might end up modifing his stator cover!  If you can rail a busa you can rail just about anything!

Like you said, good thing to wait for some warm weather!  Maybe sledhead could pick you up on the way to Texas?



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[stkr00]

Thanks again everybody. That's the help I was looking for.

Oh one more thing, when you get use ta the busa...be careful jumping on a buds blade. You just might end up modifing his stator cover![/QUOTE]

busagod - what is a blade? Is that slang for sportbike? I gotta get up on the lastest stuff...

 

[justintime2]

Interesting stuff! Anyone have an opinion on the DVD vs the book!
Thinking of getting one or the other!

 

[BusaFever]

strk00-

Sounds like everyone has everything just about covered as far as advice is concerned. One thing that I would like to add is beware of the stock tires when cornering. I am not sure what tire you are running. I know you saw blas32s post about losing the front running those 56s. I have never used them, but folks that corner fairly hard do not recommend them. I would definatley buy a confidence inspiring tire before hitting it very hard out there. Keep safe, Bill

 

[The Oracle]

Thanks again everybody.  That's the help I was looking for.

Oh one more thing,  when you get use ta the busa...be careful jumping on a buds blade.  You just might end up modifing his stator cover!

busagod - what is a blade? Is that slang for sportbike? I gotta get up on the lastest stuff... [/QUOTE]
Honda FireBlade CBR900RR

AWESOME handling road race bike!

MONSTER dude!

 

[stkr00]

strk00-

Sounds like everyone has everything just about covered as far as advice is concerned. One thing that I would like to add is beware of the stock tires when cornering. I am not sure what tire you are running. I know you saw blas32s post about losing the front running those 56s. I have never used them, but folks that corner fairly hard do not recommend them. I would definatley buy a confidence inspiring tire before hitting it very hard out there. Keep safe, Bill

I'll definitely keep that in the back of my mind for spring time. I'm not sure what I'll get next. I was thinking about the Dunlop 208, or the Metzler M1. Quite a few miles away though.

Thanks

 

[stkr00]

Oracle,

Thanks for the clarification. I know what a CBR900RR is, I forgot about it being the FireBlade.

 

[briXXer]

i would like to add.. also point ur should into the corner and make sure ur looking at ur exit of the corner.. and dont snap that throttle off in the corner.. power thru it.. also..

u dont have to be hauling ass to drag knee it can be done at slow speeds.. and theres pros that dont hang off all that much and still drag knee and then theres others that their knee very rarely touches the ground.. but it does look cool huh..lol u can always tote ur ass out here to socal and ride the canyons and trackdays for awhile and promise u will get faster!

 

[stkr00]

i would like to add.. also point ur should into the corner and make sure ur looking at ur exit of the corner.. and dont snap that throttle off in the corner.. power thru it.. also..

u dont have to be hauling ass to drag knee it can be done at slow speeds.. and theres pros that dont hang off all that much and still drag knee and then theres others that their knee very rarely touches the ground.. but it does look cool huh..lol u can always tote ur ass out here to socal and ride the canyons and trackdays for awhile and promise u will get faster!

Thanks for the info. I'm just waiting on spring to get here so the roads warm up. I've never had a problem leaning, I'm just not used to hanging-off in order to transfer the weight over. I know it helps the bike corner without the steep lean by preventing a highside from occuring, but I'm just not there yet.

I'll probably save up and go to some track days, or just save up a lot more and go to one of the racing schools where I can use THEIR bike.

Can't wait til spring...