Two gen 3 questions
- Thread starter dcnblues
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Miklos_HUN
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With my limited technical knowledge I understand that slipper clutch is designed to disengage when encounters sudden back torque beyond a certain level to protect the engine. Meaning that ordinary engine braking is still available.
This is my experience as well. When downshifting without rev matching and without using the QS I could feel the slipper clutch at work. Yet there is plenty of engine braking available, if its not turned down.
The Gen 3 Hayabusa comes with an option to regulate engine braking. You can have full engine braking (with the regulator at "off") or have it dampened at increased degrees at 1, 2 or 3. In these modes you still have some engine braking, just not as strong as without regulation, certainly not as strong as you'd expect from an engine of this caliber.
I find this feature useful in the city. I customised a riding mode where the engine output is reduced (PW 2) and engine braking is dampened (EB 2). These make the bike absolutely mellow in the city, easy to manouver, filter between cars and not at all abrupt when closing the throttle. Yet because PW 2 only affects the throttle valve until its open about halfway - as confirmed by the manual - opening up the throttle still allows the bike to rip.
This is my experience as well. When downshifting without rev matching and without using the QS I could feel the slipper clutch at work. Yet there is plenty of engine braking available, if its not turned down.
The Gen 3 Hayabusa comes with an option to regulate engine braking. You can have full engine braking (with the regulator at "off") or have it dampened at increased degrees at 1, 2 or 3. In these modes you still have some engine braking, just not as strong as without regulation, certainly not as strong as you'd expect from an engine of this caliber.
I find this feature useful in the city. I customised a riding mode where the engine output is reduced (PW 2) and engine braking is dampened (EB 2). These make the bike absolutely mellow in the city, easy to manouver, filter between cars and not at all abrupt when closing the throttle. Yet because PW 2 only affects the throttle valve until its open about halfway - as confirmed by the manual - opening up the throttle still allows the bike to rip.
Engine braking slows the rpms quicker without throttle, regardless of what kind of clutch you have.
dcnblues
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Okay that's interesting, but not how it worked on the Gen 1. The slipper clutch totally eliminated engine braking. I actually replaced mine with a solid clutch because I liked the engine braking. And the only time I ever slid the rear tire under it was going into turn 11 at Laguna Seca. Thanks for that info. It actually does sound ideal. Looking forward to getting a new gen 3, if I can find a garage for it...
FALCON22
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ENGINE BRAKING: the engine freewheels more on decel. If you backshift HARD ENOUGH the slipper clutch still does it’s thing. Try the different settings. YOU WILL FEEL IT! Like a two stroke has not a lot of engine braking. Do like that feeling? Then set to max and see what you think. I believe the timing and fuel are used to make this happen. STILL, backshift hard enough and we are back in slipper clutch territory….
Gen1 and 2 do Not have slipper clutches.
dcnblues
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My 99/00 unlimited absolutely had a slipper clutch. And it was hugely effective. It may have been early in the technology cycle, and it sure sounds like they've toned down the amount it slipped with improved versions. But there was no engine braking at all on mine, stock. I didn't like it.
dcnblues
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These are sensations I am very much looking forward to! Thanks.
It is a back torque limiter clutch, it is not a slipper, and does not accomplish the same.
No gen1 or gen2's have factory slipper clutches.
The 99/00 unlimited/unrestricted's only functional difference from 01-07 was that it did not have a top speed limiter.
I've changed a few gen1 and 2 clutches, and blacked the road a time or 10 with the rear tire from high rpm downshifts on several gen1 and gen2s...and there is no 'slipper' to prevent that.
dcnblues
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Thank you, I have never heard of this distinction and can try looking it up on my own but if you would like to expand I would love to hear on the difference between the two. In my defense I don't think it's a distinction the Moto journalists from 20 years ago were clear about either.
* my gen 1 had synthetic oil in it, and if I remember correctly there was something about additives for car synthetic oil that you shouldn't use in a motorcycle. More recently I certainly used motorcycle specific synthetic oil, but it's possible the first times I put in synthetic, that slipper clutch got a little extra slippery (never had any problems under acceleration though). My gen 1 could not drag the rear tire no matter how hard you would try. Until I put in a solid clutch instead.
**hmm Neither Wikipedia nor the rest of the internet are too clear on the distinction either. Slipper clutch - Wikipedia.
* my gen 1 had synthetic oil in it, and if I remember correctly there was something about additives for car synthetic oil that you shouldn't use in a motorcycle. More recently I certainly used motorcycle specific synthetic oil, but it's possible the first times I put in synthetic, that slipper clutch got a little extra slippery (never had any problems under acceleration though). My gen 1 could not drag the rear tire no matter how hard you would try. Until I put in a solid clutch instead.
**hmm Neither Wikipedia nor the rest of the internet are too clear on the distinction either. Slipper clutch - Wikipedia.
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I just saw this reply.
Car oils have 'Friction modifiers' in their oil, and these are what can cause a wet clutch in a motorcycle to slip.
Some car oils have no effect on motorcycle clutches, while others will ruin them quickly.
As for the back torque limiting clutch and a true slipper clutch, let me see what I can dig up for pictures to help explain the difference.
Never looked into that, but drank the coolaid.
Suzuki use to advertise the Gen2 as having a slipper clutch.
Whatever we call it, if you downshift aggressively, the back torque assembly will cause the clutch to slip. The video below explains how it works.
"Slick shifting 6 speed transmission working in conjunction with an innovative back torque limiting clutch for smooth and controlled downshifts."
Transmission ‘clunk’ resolution. | Gen 2 Busa Information
Ok, there is no commentary so I’m none the wiser.. Forgive my ignorance but what is achieved by this mod?
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I downshifted many a Gen1 and Gen2 aggressively at higher rpms...and slid the rear almost every time, not beyond my control...but Not a slipper clutch.
The later Gsxr1k's have had a slipper since 2005...and they are nothing like downshifting a Gen1 or 2 Busa...the Gsxr1k slippers actually work.
The later Gsxr1k's have had a slipper since 2005...and they are nothing like downshifting a Gen1 or 2 Busa...the Gsxr1k slippers actually work.
All I know, is when I downshift my Husqvarna aggressively, the rear is all over the place. I'm probably a bit more gentle, but I have never lost my rear on the Busa with a downshift. It probably depends on how aggressive you ride, although that doesn't make sense either, as the taper will cause more slip the more aggressive you are.
Are you perhaps on the back brake, when you downshift?
I use the clutch though when I shift, perhaps that is the difference?
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No, If approaching a turn aggressively, I downshift before entering, then trail brake if I need to.
I have downshifted with and without using the clutch on Gen1 and 2 Busas, as well as the same with the '18 Gsxr1k with the awesome factory slipper and the auto blipper/QS up/down.
I havn't noticed any patterns in performance based on my input on the controls either.
I never saw Suzuki list the Gen2 Busa as having a slipper, only as back torque limiting.
But, if Suzuki wants to call it a slipper now...it wasn't/isn't a very good example.
Even the 05/06 Gsxr1k factory slipper is much better.
What mechanism makes the clutch slip on the 1k bikes, how does it work differently from the Busa?
Iet me look through my pictures, I had the transmission out a few months ago.
If not, I have the service manual for pics.
It's more in the shape on the 1k, as the 2017-2023 only has 3 clutch springs.
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