WHAT IS THE BEST HEAD WORK TO DO?

[OB_Dirty Pete]

After reading the "Turbo talk" thread I have decided against a turbo. But I would like to do some mild head work with the objective of making my motor 7-10% stronger in the 5K-redline range with minimal impact on reliability.

What is the most important work to do in order of priority and what should it cost at a premium quality shop? I know I could just phone shops and ask but I'd prefer to go armed with knowledge. We have several very good shops here including Leitner & Bush.

Is porting/polishing/decking enough or will I need cams, springs and valves too? Can I achieve my objective with just head work? I am not interested in doing pistons unless they are stock bore and require no bottom end improvements.

Any help would be appreciated, as I need to make decisions now in order to be on the road for Daytona.

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

Wicked Wanda, she works Daytona Bike Week and tours up to Loudon for the Classic. Loudon Classic is also Fathers Day and if you have a picture of your kids she gives an extra discount.

Pete see you at the races!:O

 

[Frank Adams]

pete, you wont need to do alot to your head for those kind of numbers

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

I have never seen you on drugs before.
Not you Frank, KawAbuser.

Frank I was hoping you would reply. Can you give me some specific instruction? I am willing to go to carbs.

[This message has been edited by Dirty Pete (edited 27 November 1999).]

 

[Guest]

I know how to wait and see.Patience Pete. I am just patiently waiting for Rick and Frank to be done with there projects so I can use their ideas and learn from their mistakes. I know this sounds sneaky, but I don't think anybody on this board minds sharing their great ideas or dissapointments. Everybody on this board is prompt with E-Mails and I have never been turned down for information. I consider us all to be real lucky with all this help this board provides.
Turtle

 

[Frank Adams]

pete, no need for carb's. no need to do any milling.

you can spend as little as $600(or lower) on your head for 8 to 10hp

i can't tell ya what the max hp gain would be because thats still wide open in busa r&d world.

around $1,200 will get ya more than what your looking for...

***i could detail this all out for you but this is what i think would make you real happy; do one of those $600 jobs on your head and put a set of cams in it.***

if you want to do just a tiny bit more, then put a set of JE flat top pistons in it.(stock bore)
the stock pistons are dished alot so if you just went with flat tops and the other stuff i'll bet you could see 195 rwhp easy. thats the $600 head, cams, flat tops, airbox mod & pipe. and of course a pw2. i haven't built that combo but i'd bet money on it!

any takers?

 

[OB_ducmanic]

Check LAbusas sex links -
ducmanic

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

Ducmanic, at least somebody else met Wanda.

Frank what is the final story with your Busa,
not to sound like a Jerk but you did pump us up for your big bore motor. Then the last we heard is that you lost a head gasket. We are asking for the secret formula to big horsepower and you promised to keep us informed, so whats up. Where are you with this motor, did the first program fail or what? What can you share to save others headaches.

The motor in Rad Greaves bike rode last year in Formula Extreme was not that far from stock.

Here is the short story on Rad's bike.

Bike delivered in April/May 1999.
Break in was 400 miles at reasonable engine speeds Dyno results stock 148.1 horsepower

Early results:
Road Atlanta was first race
- Clocked at 174mph
Atlanta - Brake line failure due to line being cut by tire (AP's after changed to PFM)
Mid Ohio - shift fork(3-4) replaced as a routine preventive mantainance

Construction:
Yoshimura USA - assist in information and race parts
Rad's Titanium RS3 is the first production pipe produced for Hayabusa by Yosh-USA.

Engine work that was done over three weekends prior to race season opening, bike recieved in April/99.

Weekend 1) Cylinder Head 6hrs
Compression increase
Cam(OEM)adjustments with Yosh GSXR750 cam sprockets
RS3 Titanium race pipe with Titanium canister (tapered header pipes) 168 rwhp

Weekend 2) Pistons 12.3-1 Yosh-Japan
Camshafts Yosh-Japan Race Kit
Headwork (3hrs)195 rwhp 112ft.lb. torque

Weekend 3) Special race wire harness made from stock harness
Current bike weight 438lbs.

Future weekends
New Head from Japan
Special transmission - 1, 2, gear stock ratio with 3,4,5,6 close ratio
Horsepower goal of 210 rwhp

Fuel Injection- all engine sensors are in place
- gear position senser in place (pink wire)
- Stock injectors and plumbing in place
- Maping done with Yosh box

Suspension - PPS
- Ohlins front
- Ohlins rear with hydraulic preload special configuration for Hayabusa

Bodywork - Fabricated by **** ******
- Produces in Michagan - molds still exist

Chassis Work - ***** Racing
- Swing arm mods (heavy bracing and shorter wheelbase -2")
- Steering Head mods (yet to be determined)
6:43 PM 7/27/99

This information was from the middle of July, so it is obvious that the hayabusa has a lot
of unfound power in the stock configuration.

The people who built this motor are available for head work.

Seems like the cams are adjustable after all

 

[OB_Wronglane]

Dirty Pete

If you don't want to go crazy with your bike,use the stock cams and put all your money into the head.You will easily make 10% more power over baseline. This of course,depends on the knowledge of the person porting the heads.Make sure he is usung a flowbench because power and how it comes on is dictated by many things in the head.Make the port too big and the power comes on high in the powerband(In this case,a smaller motor with good porting will blow by you like a chain was anchored to your bike).If velocity is too high,the air shoots past the valve too fast.A good port job will have high velocity at low,mid,and high levels of valve lift(In this case,the motor will have torque everywhere which is really what gets you moving).Shop around for someone with experience and ask to see some of his work and/or ask for references.Someone good will actually be able to calculate the horsepower you will make after the porting is done before it goes on a dyno(he will be very close to).

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

Thank you very much to everyone for sharing your knowledge like that. I'll print out this page and use it as a crib sheet for discussing what I want from a machine shop.

What's all your knowledge worth to me? Well without it I could get fucked over for $2,000 by someone who saw me coming, and then come out with a useless bike. I've seen it happen to a lot of guys. With your knowledge, I'm much more likely to get what I want for a fair price.

So thanks! .ORG power strikes again!!!

 

[OB_cbxchris]

Pete if you want to gain some you could have someone on a serti go in and open the stock seats to max ...blend the ports no real port job...either mill the head a little for a slight increase in compression[I personally don`t like to do that] or as Frank said pistons but if I were going to the expense of that I would go 2mm over. Larger valves would be the next option and again I personally think that is the way to go. The boots that the fuel injectors push into need to be matched. Valve springs would be good also...don`t get your spring pressure to high that only causes more problems. Noticed Web has a good middle of the road cam...probably work good on street. Again personally I would go with the larger cam but I have a stock busa to ride. I have not checked into it but the head gasket would be my biggest concern...I don`t know what everyone is using on the overbores...cometic? I`ve seen some big time sealing problems in the past with thier gaskets on water pumpers. but have been told that they have improved. If you do mill your head do it on a surface grinder...NOT a milling machine...you`ll never get it to seal unless someone really knows what they`re doing with that mill. I know I`ve rambled on but its cost me a lot of money over the last 20 years to figure a lot of stuff out and to also always do your own work and never trust someone else...you will always do a better job for yourself. If you need help with a machine shop that I personally trust and has the best of equipment mail me and I can send you thier way.

 

[OB_turbo1300]

Rad is also using PFM brakes from Yoyodyne.

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

Bike goes in tomorrow and the head will be sent to Orient Express immediately for flowing, cams, springs, valve work and mild milling. With PCII and a race 4-1 (I've made an offer on Malcolm's used Hindle) I think I can reasonably expect 180 reliable RWHP. I'm at 161 now.

I do not want any stock ZX12s passing me on the straights next season. In the corners OK, but not on the straights!

Again thank you for the advice. I'm taking it.

 

[OB_Wronglane]

Pete,
Good luck with your bike.When will it be ready? Please keep us posted?

 

[OB_Dirty Pete]

Wronglane the turnaround at Orient Express is 6 to 8 weeks after the head gets there. I'm looking at (Canadian money which is 68¢ to the U.S. dollar) $800 for Orient Express, $600 for cams, $150 for springs, plus re & re, tuning, shipping and taxes. $2,000 probably.

Also PCII and pipe have to go on. Dyno tuning will be done at the Hindle factory which is near me. My tuner has privileges on Hindle's dyno which is a nice recent-model in-ground jobbie.

I'm doing other stuff too so I won't be riding until mid-February but I'll keep my trials and tribulations posted.

[This message has been edited by Dirty Pete (edited 30 November 1999).]