what is the dif. in dyno\'s ???

OB_mrabusa_h

Registered
Temp-76 Bar-29.99 h20-44
SAE Correction factor - 0.9840
Eng. Techometer Ratio - 2.2825

RPM 10,506
MPH 174.4
HP 140.4
ft/lbs 70.2
co 4.1
hc 1246
co2 10.2
02 3.2

Only have changed TBR Slip-ons, BMC Air filter & Denso race plugs..

Corrected HP Per factory said 161.46 HP
And looking at a factor of 1.18 from dynojet, that would be 165.672 HP
 
Congrats. you gained over 20 hp with those mods. I have to admit those number from your original busa are a little low. did you have any problems before you did those mods? Never the less you have made great strides so keep up the good work!
 
Some one is smoking something here. Factory dynos will give you a number - true rear wheel hp. They won't give you a number that has been corrected (those are the DynoJet boys).

Your bike on a Factory dyno should give about 140 hp. The difference between Factory & DJ readings that you talk about (%15) should bring you up to around 160-161. This is about notmal for a bike with your mods.

Where did you have your dyno run made, and do you remember how did it?

[This message has been edited by jeffw (edited 04 October 1999).]
 
That's what Im trying to find out??

The dyno run at Factory Pro ran at 140.4 HP, The SAE Corretion factor was - 0.9840 ??

They told me that if I dynoed at another shop, or dynojet that the HP would be about 161.46.. Got on to dynojets web site and found a referance that they use 1.18 correction factor?? What does this mean ??

Trying to find out what the dif.. are ??

The numbers above are from my dyno read-out, at 10500RPM, runing at 174.5MPH, total Rear wheel HP was 140.4, at 70.2 ft/lbs...

We made 3 runs, progressing 1000RPM at a time, starting from 2000 RPMs and taking it to 10500RPMs...

[This message has been edited by mrabusa_h (edited 04 October 1999).]
 
The Dyno is only as good as its set-up. The newer Dyno Jets and Superflows have more sophisticated features and the software is improved.
For example:
New Superflow places an inductive pick-up near the rear wheel. Reflective tape is placed on the rear wheel to provide a pick-up point. The idea of this feature is to account for slippage between your wheel and the drum. If its slipping your HP will show up lower, so this corrects it.
Also ram air is supplied with the newer dynos.
The software can allow different overlays of one dyno run on another. What I mean by its a good as the set-up is the atmospheric conditions (press., temp, etc.)should be entered or with newer dynos there is actually on board instruments to measure this. Correction factors take things such as this into account and provide a curve that is corrected.
Most DYNo's should print out the corrected SAE HP/Corrected SAE torque as well as the uncorrected. Correction factors will raise or lower the recorded data. ).98 means there will be approx. 2% difference in your corrected plot versus uncorrected. I also prefer to see rpm vs. SAE HP and SAE torque. They should attach to your coils so that the dyno can pick-up engine speed.
I have been on three Dyno's. 2 DynoJets and 1 Superflow.
7 HP difference between them, but two were darn close (within 2HP) I personnally prefer the new Superflow 250. Plus this shop has both Exhaust gas temp, and CO measuring instruments attached so I can tune better. Finally, an Eddy Current brake is a nice feature that will allow the Dyno to operate at a specific rpm. (load step) This means you can tune your Busa at 3000 rpm at 2%, 5% 50% throttle position and see effect of map changes to exhaust and HP.
best advice is to DYNO BEFORE you modify and then after so at least you have a baseline for comparison.
Also ask alot of questions regarding the DYNO and how it acccounts for corrections. I found that 2 of three dyno shops I went to were better than the third who seemed very discorganized and unsure.
I also was able to watch a couple other bikes on the on the dyno while i was there. One stock BMW, which I compared the rear wheel HP number with a couple different magazines which also dynoed (Bike mag.) which showed it to be a little on the low side. My shop lets me make the runs if i want and I can stay with the bike throughout. This shop gets $100 per hour for the Dyno though. But, its worth it to me. I get the Superflow Dyno files on diskette, which i then can load into the software I obtained by downloading the Demo CD from Superflow's web site. Just search For "Superflow Dyno Windyn" and you will get there.
Bob
 
Thanks Bob

This was the info I was after, The shop that I used was the one that set up the bike that was 4 in the 24Hr race last week.. And yes this was one of the newer dyno systems from Eddy??
 
The best dyno i have seen or used is called the ass on the seat. I do not always go by the dyno numbers because i have noticed to many times it looks good on the dyno but runs like poop on the street. How do you know how it performs when the ramair is not working when its on the dyno ?

[This message has been edited by jim p (edited 04 October 1999).]
 
I agree with you about trying the Dyno settings on the street. That is what we did when we were remapping. Go for ride, problem is its time consuming.
Whats good on a Dyno doesn't necessarily translate to the street.
But its all we got that puts the results on paper or a screen for now. There always the 1/4 mile, but not that quick, easy or convenient.
The ram air set-up on the Superflow 250 uses two pipes that stick out of the front of the dyno. They also have big rubber 90 degree periscope like attachments that swivel and move. They can be placed directly in front of the Busa's nostrils. The drum of the dyno drives the blower to simulate increased air speed with MPH/drum speed.
Its not exactly real world, but better than a big fan.
My bike began to make more Horsepower with ramair at approx. 5000 rpm-5500 rpm ( approx. 80 mph in 4th. By the time you reach 10,300 rpm it was making 10 hp more than without the ram air.
In addition, we saw that more fuel was needed to make better peak HP than was shown with the non ram air Dyno runs. I have the graphs of the two runs and its very clear what ram air does. Why else would Kawasaki place that big ugly rectangle in the very front of the ZX-12.
Bob
 
Hey. Lets see if I can address all these to the best of my knowledge...

mrabusa_h: The Dynojet dyno drum can be considered a flywheel of sorts. Bascially, it's an drum that requires HP to turn it from speed a to speed b in a measured amount of time. Basically, the change in velocity over time is acceleration. With acceleration, and a known mass (the drum's inertia), HP can be mathematically calculated. Add RPM to the equation, then you also have torque.

The EC997a and other load style dyno's measure either current or pressure to get a torque figure. There are several problems with this method.

Even though controls have gotten much better over the years, heat influences measurements. The inertial design does NOT need to measure anything by way of friction, therefore it's more consistent and repeatable.

The horsepower model used by dyno's may be different. This can account for differences between different manufacturers of dynos. Typically, as tested by multiple magazines, the Dynojet dyno's vary less than 1/2% on a consistent test subject from dyno to dyno.

I don't know where you came up with that 1.18 correction factor from Dynojet...was that something that the Factory dyno operator told you to use? If that was a correction factor as shown on one of the dyno runs made on a Dynojet, that means that for the conditions of that day, for each 100 rear wheel horsepower, the SAE correction factor was adding 18% to account for atmospheric condition. That is feasable for their location in Montana. You should see much less than that in California, Florida, etc. (sea level states), more like 1.00 or there abouts.

The real problem with trying to correlate a Dynojet number with the EC997a number is the testing method used. A load style dyno measures the amount of resistance needed at given RPM intervals in order to give a torque reading. The inertia dyno's give a reading of the acceleration. Now, when you ride your bike, do you accelerate, or sit at a given RPM?

Bob: That tire speed measurement device that the SF dyno's have is difficult for me to fathom. My understanding is that they are measuring to see if the speed of the tire is different than the speed of the drum. Okay, so if they are different, slippage is occuring. How could that add that back in to figure horsepower? If horsepower can be calculated by accelerating a known mass, yet slippage means the tire is accelerating, but NOT the known mass, how can they calculate anything?

Also, if a dyno run starts at 3k or 4k RPM, why should tirespin be a problem? Typical runs are made in 4th gear. Traction shouldn't be a problem without the extra torque multiplication of a lower gear.

The load devices are extremely useful for tuning the FI bikes. They are mandatory for producing load at given RPM's. If you've used a Power Commander, then you know what I mean. Dynojet has this, as well as the others. Dynojet doesn't offer CO%, but rather air/fuel ratio, which can be displayed after the run on the same dyno graph. This will give excellent data on whether the bike is rich or lean and at what RPM.

Regarding the big fans on the SF...how does that work? I was thinking about those and how do they account for the losses of spinning the fans? I'd imaging that the losses would be different with different conditions as well (ie, higher altitude means less dense air, so easier to spin the fans, etc.).

JimP: The 'Busa is an FI bike with an AP sensor. This means that as air box pressure builds, it automatically corrects with fuel. Sure, peak power output may be slightly higher at speed (I seem to remember one mag doing a test on the ZX-9 a few years ago and figured it gained 6hp at 160mph), but if everyone is tested on even ground, the amount of difference due to airspeed is negated. If you make X on the dyno, then you make X + ram air. If your buddy makes X+5 + ram air, then he has 5 more with the ram air as well, at the same speed.
 
Bob i spent 4 hr saturday riding and remapping. A local shop owner told me that his dyno is the best sales tool he has for tires, chains and sprockets. Maybe we should be racing dyno's numbers not bikes, just speaking my mind.
 
Dynojet is located in Montana and their correction factor mainly due to altitude(I think 4500 feet) is in the 1.18 range. So if you run your bike there, lets say it made 158 corrected ponies, on the dyno, it actually produced 18% less hp at the wheel.
 
What is the Dif. ??

Does Dynojet use a fly wheel ??

And what is the Dif. from a EC997a ??

Have been told that there is a 15% Dif. in the machines??

Had my Busa tested on a EC997a last Fri..
 
Bob, yes I drive a 96 WS6 TA. You would think that SF has some sort of correction for the drag of the fans, but I don't think it could be accurate for all scenario's. Different altitude would mean different air density, which means more or less power required to turn the fans the same speed. I just look at it as one more thing that can take away from the consistency and repeatability of a dyno.

On the slippage thing...even if they know tire diameter think of the graph. If you were to graph just mph and RPM together, in any given gear you have a line that goes up diagonally, since the gear ratio is consistent throughout that gear. If slippage occurs, that straight line now gets some funky curve in the middle of it. How can they assume to measure what it does, when the load put on the motor at that point changes. As the tire slips, the load goes down, so there goes the repeatability.

Hope that helps.
 
WS6-Keith
Do you own a Ram Air Firebird (i.e WS6 option code?)
Good post--I also wondered about the drag of the fan. I assumed it was accounted for when Superflow set it up. Most of the time you direct the blowers to the radiator.
The slippage pick-up was not connected when i ran last. They must need tire diameter also to figure this out. Poor example maybe. Heres a better one--Newer dynos have brakes to slow down the drum so your engine doesn't have to.

I wanted to call superflow about the ramair set-up anyway, maybe i will today if i get a chance.

jim p --sometimes I wonder. But, The dyno did CLEARLY put a number and illustrate the 2000-2500 rpm dip in power I have between the Yosh settings and the PC2. I also could tell driving it. The Dyno allowed us to identify exactly what rpm and throttle position (load-step) needed remapping. The Yosh can't change the map at that point specifically.

Bt the way, DynoJet has a program that allows you to race two or three different dyno runs against each other. acceleration/time. It actually shows different color bikes racing across the computer screen.
You could use a V-Tech accelerometer. There about $150.00 and can be placed in car or bike. They provide accurate 0-60 second times, 1/4 mile times by measuring acceleration/ g-force.

If Big Dog ever upgrades this site it would be nice to send the dyno overlays I have that show the DIP between them and the effect of ramair on the Superflow Dyno so those that have not seen a dyno plot could.
 
This is great stuff.. Just what I was looking for..

I will scan my Dyno sheet later today..

First the machine I was on also has the ram air fans, and the 1.18 corr.. number I got was on dynojets web site..

I will hite the web sites more to day, But again this info is great THANKS :)
 
Hey bro it,s your homeboy here...
I think those fans are to cool the engine not Ram Air correct me if I am wrong !?

hey bro on the same shop same dyno I got 132.9 RWHP stock.
 
I realize this is a little off the topic but I have run my bike on three different dynos too. One at my Kawasaki dealer shows me 131hp. The bike isn't strapped down and I expect I am getting a lot of wheel spin. I ran the bike on the Suzuki dealers dyno. The same combination made 142hp. This was strapped down. The last dyno was one that was at Pocono in the parking lot. The read out was 155hp. Very cool number.

My thinking is this, if you buy a Blue Book for your car and one book tells you your car is worth $15,000 and the next tells you it's worth $16,000 which one are you gonna buy? I think savvy dyno owners are using the same thinking.

The answer is to run your bike stock on one dyno then modify it and run it on the same dyno. Don't get your heart broken over a low stock HP read out. I'd love to run my bike on the dyno that the magazines use. My Suzuki dealer says he's never run a bike on his dyno that made the same as what the magazines said it would. The dyno guy at Pocono said some dyno operators would actually get the dyno's drum lightened so it would show a higher number. I don't trust these dynos with correction factors for ram air. How do they know the airbox pressure without actually putting the bike in a wind tunnel or dragging it behind a Dodge Viper?

My last number on the 142hp dyno was 150hp does that mean I'm up to 165hp on the Pocono dyno? I hope so I'll get a print out of that one. BTW, all they dynos were Dynojet units.

If the Factory units read lower does that mean that the MMI shoot out numbers should be higher? OUCH!

Jamie
 
YO Black Bus What ist is !! :)

Yes your correct, But they also talk about pressurizing the ram air ??

[This message has been edited by mrabusa_h (edited 05 October 1999).]
 
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