´22 gen3 , - 300 miles and no compr. at #1

[Berlin Germany]

hi folks

found at willis racing on youtube

´22 gen3 , - 300 miles and no compr. more on #1
look at the video - especially from minute 31:00
so I was really puke in a figurative sense.
and the owner gets nothing, not a cent - according to charles willis, suzuki assumes no warranty.
if you can repair it yourself, that's still easily €600 in material costs that will be incurred.
if it has to be done in a workshop, you can easily calculate a few more a little tip (some 1000 bucks) on the side
go to your dealer and get the shims checked to see whether the spring plates are still ok or whether these strong signs of the shim are already showing. it's best to pull the video onto your cell phone and show it to the dealer.

 

[Bumblebee]

What it shows in this video is if you take a brand new bike and run it hard on a 1/4 mile track, bad things happen...

That bike was flogged from the get-go...

 

[Berlin Germany]

@Bumblebee

even what other thinkings ever may come up

but a 90° turned over shim, under the cup tappet, I pers. NEVER have seen

and i never found that marks at the top of the "Washer(s)" at the valve spring like in the video


with that weird shim position it is logical that the valve kisses the piston.

 

[Bumblebee]

@Bumblebee

even what other thinkings ever may come up

but a 90° turned over shim, under the cup tappet, I pers. NEVER have seen

and i never found that marks at the top of the "Washer" at the valve spring like in the video


with that weird shim position it is logical that the valve kisses the piston.

With all the gen 3s out there and a few run hard but properly broke in and this is the only one we've heard having an issue...??

Do you think it was put in wrong from the factory?

Could be but getting ridden half to death right out of the box probably didn't help much and I imagine the dealership he bought it from knows this.

 

[Dustin02]

Probably from bouncing off the rev limiter one too many times...

 

[sixpack577]

I've seen and done too many new engine and new rebuilds with hard break-ins to belive that it was how it was ridden.
There are lots of tests online to back this up too.
Rev limiters are also just that, rev limits.
Consider that redlines can almost always be raised above the factory settings, and performance is Gained while the engines still operate safely...further proof that factory red lines are set conservatively safe to prevent over-rev damage.
That gen3 had a fluke assembly problem, and the dealer saw an out to avoid repair.
Has anyone ever dealt with dealer service, bike or car?
The majority of the time, they are the shadiest people in business.

 

[Bumblebee]

I've seen and done too many new engine and new rebuilds with hard break-ins to belive that it was how it was ridden.
There are lots of tests online to back this up too.
Rev limiters are also just that, rev limits.
Consider that redlines can almost always be raised above the factory settings, and performance is Gained while the engines still operate safely...further proof that factory red lines are set conservatively safe to prevent over-rev damage.
That gen3 had a fluke assembly problem, and the dealer saw an out to avoid repair.
Has anyone ever dealt with dealer service, bike or car?
The majority of the time, they are the shadiest people in business.

In almost every video Moore Mafia puts out he mentions the importance of hot/cold cycling the engine and putting on road miles before modding them...

Did this particular gen 3 get that? Probably...it could also have been from a flaw in the building process...

However, I'll bet the bike shop knows how it was ridden and won't touch it as a result....is it right for them to do that? I'd say not as whether it was ridden hard on a track or the street makes little difference in the big picture in my opinion..

The only reason this one is suspect in my mind is we haven't heard of any other gen 3 with this problem...

 

[sixpack577]

In almost every video Moore Mafia puts out he mentions the importance of hot/cold cycling the engine and putting on road miles before modding them...

Did this particular gen 3 get that? Probably...it could also have been from a flaw in the building process...

However, I'll bet the bike shop knows how it was ridden and won't touch it as a result....is it right for them to do that? I'd say not as whether it was ridden hard on a track or the street makes little difference in the big picture in my opinion..

The only reason this one is suspect in my mind is we haven't heard of any other gen 3 with this problem...

Multiple heat cycles are also debatable, and I have done those as well.
The argument against them has always been rings not seating as well as possible.
I have personally had 2-stroke rebuilds last more hours when 3 heat cycles where done, idle to around 210f, cool to air temp, repeat 2 more times.
They also ran until compression was literally gone, vs the more common having a ring break.
But, lots of variables.
I still think that gen3 had a bad part and/or assembly, vs how it was broken in.
Bmw is also the only bike that I know of that has you bring it back for a 600 mile inspection, and then they up the rev limiter.
Their entire sales and service experience is far superior to the Japanese bikes anyway...but I still like my noisey engined Suzukis.

 

[Bumblebee]

Multiple heat cycles are also debatable, and I have done those as well.
The argument against them has always been rings not seating as well as possible.
I have personally had 2-stroke rebuilds last more hours when 3 heat cycles where done, idle to around 210f, cool to air temp, repeat 2 more times.
They also ran until compression was literally gone, vs the more common having a ring break.
But, lots of variables.
I still think that gen3 had a bad part and/or assembly, vs how it was broken in.
Bmw is also the only bike that I know of that has you bring it back for a 600 mile inspection, and then they up the rev limiter.
Their entire sales and service experience is far superior to the Japanese bikes anyway...but I still like my noisey engined Suzukis.

I'm that idiot that follows the manufacturer break in procedure...and have never had any issues thankfully...

I only quote Moore Mafia as he seems to know his stuff and gets results.

Hard to believe in this day and age of robotic engine building that this would slip through but anything is possible...

 

[sixpack577]

I'm that idiot that follows the manufacturer break in procedure...and have never had any issues thankfully...

I only quote Moore Mafia as he seems to know his stuff and gets results.

Hard to believe in this day and age of robotic engine building that this would slip through but anything is possible...

Yeah, nothing terrible about a heat cycle, and Moore Mafia does put out quality work, from what I've personally experienced.
I've been in QC in the auto industry 8 years now, today as a matter of fact, lol, and you would be suprised at the crazy things that can happen in the manufacturing processes.
What comes in from suppliers, and in house on the shop floor.
Most are usually some type of human error, but the machines have their brain farts too.
Then you get a team of engineers standing around scratching their heads, and if the problem is not repeatable, then it's just something else to be aware of.
The complexity of some of the processes and the designing of such can be staggering sometimes too, but, then again...the human brain did invent them, so...

 

[Busa Quick]

I recommend watching the following videos from that Willis guy. He explains what he found when he took the engine apart and all the while he says he races and expects to have problems. And later videos he shows how to do a clutch mod that might be handy for people to ride Gen 3 bikes.

I enjoyed his videos because he seemed to be pretty truthful.

 

[mabupa]

hi folks

found at willis racing on youtube

´22 gen3 , - 300 miles and no compr. more on #1
look at the video - especially from minute 31:00
so I was really puke in a figurative sense.
and the owner gets nothing, not a cent - according to charles willis, suzuki assumes no warranty.
if you can repair it yourself, that's still easily €600 in material costs that will be incurred.
if it has to be done in a workshop, you can easily calculate a few more a little tip (some 1000 bucks) on the side
go to your dealer and get the shims checked to see whether the spring plates are still ok or whether these strong signs of the shim are already showing. it's best to pull the video onto your cell phone and show it to the dealer.

Was discussed last year. Here is the thread about it and in his later videos explain what he found.

gen 3 motor failure | Gen 3 Busa Information

its not a catastrophic failure but one was bound to fail with the amount of people racing these bikes.

www.hayabusa.org

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

I’ve been in the auto business for over 25yrs. NEVER in my life have I seen more things that would make you go ‘hmmm’ than in the last couple years. Covid literally created a whole generation of idiots and mistake makers. I have seen $100,000 vehicles come in missing parts that are so obvious you’re like ‘wtf? How does that even make it here?’ We have vehicles come in completely dry, NOT a single drop of oil in them. These had been driven from the plant, driven to storage, driven onto trains, put in storage again, loaded onto car carriers and delivered bone dry. The racket the engines were making was incredible. Yet nobody cared or caught it until they arrived to us and went thru pre-delivery service inspection.
The rate of failure for consumer products has never been higher than it is now.

 

[Dennis]

I know Charles and Janie. They are good people. Charles does his own motor work so he knows what's up.

Bikes will spit shims from time to time. I've had it happen. It is usually at high rpm, sometimes things just don't go right. It makes sense that the rev limiter would change the cylinder pressure so the exhaust valve might have reduced pressure on it against the cam so spitting an exhaust shim could be more likely. If you get lucky you bend a valve and that's it.

That said, Suzuki warranty absolutely sucks. I had a 2005 where the transmission developed the second gear skip at 1800 miles and I had to fight them all the way to get it warrantied.

 

[mabupa]

I know Charles and Janie. They are good people. Charles does his own motor work so he knows what's up.

Bikes will spit shims from time to time. I've had it happen. It is usually at high rpm, sometimes things just don't go right. It makes sense that the rev limiter would change the cylinder pressure so the exhaust valve might have reduced pressure on it against the cam so spitting an exhaust shim could be more likely. If you get lucky you bend a valve and that's it.

That said, Suzuki warranty absolutely sucks. I had a 2005 where the transmission developed the second gear skip at 1800 miles and I had to fight them all the way to get it warrantied.

There are stories about shitty warranty service from about any manufacturer. I’ve been there, unfortunately, more than once.
My 2013 mustang developed a transmission noisy on the infamous mt82 6 speed manual and I took it to the dealer. I was told it was normal, which I told them was BS. Took it to two more dealers after that and got the run around so I gave up. At 60k plus miles (a couple thousand miles after power train warranty was up) the piece of junk died and I had to buy another an do the work myself.
Bought a 2007 Camry with the 4cyl. 2az-Fe new and at 10k miles noticed oil level had dropped some. I thought I was losing my mind. It was a new car after all, so how could that be?. I kept a close eye and, sure enough, car was burning oil. I asked the dealer and they looked at me as if I was crazy and said all was fine. After 7 years and 80k miles the car was burning 2 plus quarts between oil changes. Toyota finally sent me a letter basically admitting what I had been complaining about all along. They had so many vehicles coming in with excessive consumption or seized engines that they had started a “program” offering everyone one with less than 150k miles/10 years the option to bring their vehicle in for an oil consumption test and, if it failed the test, they would take motor apart and replace pistons and crappy low tension rings at no cost. I was excited and took my car in just be told that, after the test, my car was not going to be repaired because it wasn’t burning a quart every 1100 miles. ! This one left such a bad taste in my mouth that I didn’t buy another Toyota until recently.

 

[Bumblebee]

At 20,000kms the rear painted bumper on my Ram sport started to rust...I took it to the dealer to show them and they said the bumper wasn't covered as it wasn't part of the body....3 yrs later and after a lot of battling, I got a new bumper...

I have the lifetime corrosion package and all the paint/interior protection packages....where I got them was the rear bumper was paint protected which made it part of the body...

Other than that they have been great....the staff constantly changes though.

But back to the gen 3 Busa.....there have been quite a few sold and rode, some hard but we have yet to hear of the same issue with the valve retainer....hopefully this is an isolated thing.

 

[mabupa]

At 20,000kms the rear painted bumper on my Ram sport started to rust...I took it to the dealer to show them and they said the bumper wasn't covered as it wasn't part of the body....3 yrs later and after a lot of battling, I got a new bumper...

I have the lifetime corrosion package and all the paint/interior protection packages....where I got them was the rear bumper was paint protected which made it part of the body...

Other than that they have been great....the staff constantly changes though.

They all claim their warranties will take care of you if anything happens until, something does happen.

 

[Bumblebee]

They all claim their warranties will take care of you if anything happens until, something does happen.

What I hate about warranties is the duration...as part of the deal I got I had the extended 5 yr 120,000kms warranty....5 yrs later I had 50,000kms on the truck and the warranty was gone...I firmly believe the warranty should be just the distance regardless of years...I should have the same coverage up to 120,000kms even if it takes me 10 yrs...

I would never buy an extended warranty for that reason.

The sad part is the service department still hounds me for service...they call all the time and I say the same thing "is my truck still under warranty?, no? then don't call me, I will decide who does my service" Yet they still do as they change service people like I change my socks...

 

[mabupa]

What I hate about warranties is the duration...as part of the deal I got I had the extended 5 yr 120,000kms warranty....5 yrs later I had 50,000kms on the truck and the warranty was gone...I firmly believe the warranty should be just the distance regardless of years...I should have the same coverage up to 120,000kms even if it takes me 10 yrs...

I would never buy an extended warranty for that reason.

The sad part is the service department still hounds me for service...they call all the time and I say the same thing "is my truck still under warranty?, no? then don't call me, I will decide who does my service" Yet they still do as they change service people like I change my socks...

My answer to them when they ask me to buy this protection, that warranty, etc is always the same: “is this such an unreliable car that I need so many warranties? I might have to reconsider my choice”. I also keep getting calls about service but I always tell them I’m not sitting at the dealer for 2hrs to get an oil change done by the most inexperienced tech in the shop. I found a dealer in Kentucky that has great prices on OEM parts so I get 3 or 4 cases of oil, a few filters and whatever other miscellaneous items I need and they ship for free if you spend a certain amount. I do my own maintenance and I don’t have to worry about anybody touching my truck. Saw a guy not long ago post on the Tacoma forum about going to the dealer for the first “complementary” oil change and the tech left the o-ring or something off the filter housing cap (new tacomas use the paper type filter) causing oil to leak out. Another guy got an oil change at the dealer and he decided to do the next himself and found that the paper filter was never put in. The tech just screwed the cap on without putting a filter in.

 

[Bumblebee]

My answer to them when they ask me to buy this protection, that warranty, etc is always the same: “is this such an unreliable car that I need so many warranties? I might have to reconsider my choice”. I also keep getting calls about service but I always tell them I’m not sitting at the dealer for 2hrs to get an oil change done by the most inexperienced tech in the shop. I found a dealer in Kentucky that has great prices on OEM parts so I get 3 or 4 cases of oil, a few filters and whatever other miscellaneous items I need and they ship for free if you spend a certain amount. I do my own maintenance and I don’t have to worry about anybody touching my truck. Saw a guy not long ago post on the Tacoma forum about going to the dealer for the first “complementary” oil change and the tech left the o-ring or something off the filter housing cap (new tacomas use the paper type filter) causing oil to leak out. Another guy got an oil change at the dealer and he decided to do the next himself and found that the paper filter was never put in. The tech just screwed the cap on without putting a filter in.

I must say the techs at the dealership I go to are very good and are the few staff that didn't change. and they love my truck as I keep it spotless so they seem to recognize pride of ownership and treat it as such....it comes back to me spotless.

If they find anything they ask for me to come to the back and look at it before they proceed at fixing it so I know what's going on...

They have an express oil change and 20 mins is the longest I've had to wait...I spend that time teasing myself looking at new trucks and Hellcats...

But I've heard horror stories from people at other places.