A Rant

[GHILLIE]

I posted a link to a case against a state cop along with a video that was used by the victim motorcycle rider in that case. The cop was out of line, and I thought it would be a good way to have a discussion on the benefits of recording your contacts with police, either with video or audio, as a method to protect yourself from bad contacts with LEOs.

The post was pulled by a mod. Apparently, according to the mod, a number of the cops on the forum have complained about the cop bashing on the forum. Since I’m a cop, a 25 year vet, I think it is important to call out the bozos in our profession, just like I believe the moderate Muslims should call out their radical members.

One of the things I have enjoyed about the .org was the freedom the powers to be allowed for expression on all kinds of issues, no matter how provocative. The first amendment is alive and well here, or at least until recently maybe. It would be too bad if a group of folks, whoever they are, were able to stifle the free exchange of ideas and discussion on issues. And certainly for my brothers and sisters in blue to whine to management, well that is just embarrassing.

FWIW, the mod was very kind and professional in his explanation.

 

[Lycan]

I think one comment on this from that site says it all...now i ana ctually paste what I was gonna put in your thread

I think everyone here does understand Mr. Graber recorded himself breaking the law and he recklessly endangered the public by doing so.
However, the outrage is that he was charged with extraordinarily serious felony wiretap charges and was subject to having his equipment confiscated in what strongly appears to be a retaliatory measure in regards to his posting of the cop's behaviour.

The proper response would not to have drawn very questionable charges against Mr. Graber and execute a search and seizure based on extraordinarily shaky grounds but instead not respond or have a spokesman relate the circumstances surrounding said video.

The fact that retaliatory charges of questionable legality were used as a reprisal creates a chilling affect on public disclosure of police malfeasance. We are not outraged in any way by Mr. Graber's traffic charges. In fact, the police officer certainly could have justified his actions by saying in the heat of the moment and he never pointed the weapon directly and it was immediately holstered after assessing the situation. The outrage is again, the retaliatory charges trying to chill public recording of police.

 

[Vonderbach]

I aired my grievances in the same thread that you created, both were a free exchange of ideas. So I certainly hope you don't get the impression that it was me that made your thread disappear.

Secondly, while it is admirable that you are critical of those that make your profession look bad, I have to wonder what's in your mind when you make threads titled "another Cowboy state cop" and assume everyone to know your intentions. Obviously you didn't mean to stir the pot, but when you and a dozen other people make similar threads, it seems like you're just piling on instead of trying to call out the "bozos."

See, I had no idea you were a cop, and had I know that, it might have given me a different perspective. Instead, I just see a lame thread title and a link, which looks to me like yet another LEO bashing thread....one of many that have been posted lately. People that hate any group of people without consideration for their individuality are idiots in my book. So please excuse me if I came to the wrong conclusion. I hope you can see why.

 

[captain]

I posted a link to a case against a state cop along with a video that was used by the victim motorcycle rider in that case. The cop was out of line, and I thought it would be a good way to have a discussion on the benefits of recording your contacts with police, either with video or audio, as a method to protect yourself from bad contacts with LEOs.

The post was pulled by a mod. Apparently, according to the mod, a number of the cops on the forum have complained about the cop bashing on the forum. Since I’m a cop, a 25 year vet, I think it is important to call out the bozos in our profession, just like I believe the moderate Muslims should call out their radical members.

One of the things I have enjoyed about the .org was the freedom the powers to be allowed for expression on all kinds of issues, no matter how provocative. The first amendment is alive and well here, or at least until recently maybe. It would be too bad if a group of folks, whoever they are, were able to stifle the free exchange of ideas and discussion on issues. And certainly for my brothers and sisters in blue to whine to management, well that is just embarrassing.

FWIW, the mod was very kind and professional in his explanation.

Please let me help with a public response...

Having discussions about things like this is one thing but when threads are created and we see a downward trend we will often times move threads to a holding area.

We are a pro discussion site but we also know that the pulse of the site can change quickly.. It's pretty easy for us to see and manage the demaeanor of the site overall, sometimes a little humor inserted into the forum is just what people need to keep spirits high and sometimes we can see where things are going and we make adjustments to keep folks from going over the edge... We absolutely want discussion on the forums, hard topics is what forces us to work through issues but at the same time we are not made up for a think tank we are here for a common interest of a motorcycle.....

There are some great points that are brought up by members about bad cops, I was a patrol officer for 6 years so I get it, at the same time it's easy for some to just stereo type and put all cops into one basket....

In the end we are charged with running an effecient motorcycle website and we do what we think needs to be done at a given time... It's not intended as a violation of your rights but a simple way to keep the peace.... We very seldom take actions like this but we really hope that the person that started the thread understands our role and reasoning..

cap

 

[GHILLIE]

Cap,

I understand, agree with you, and I'm not upset at the decision even if I disagree.

Vonderbach,

I understand that my title was provocative and that was intentional to get participation in a debate. Maybe that was a bad idea, but that was my thinking at the time. But yes I do understand why you reacted.

I have learned, either from your posts or someone else your tie to LE. You write well, so when the rude or vicious comments come in against cops, I enjoy your responses. But we both know there are bad cops both by intention and by incompetence. Also cops make honest mistakes. I see nothing wrong with pointing those out, and having discussion on the topic. That can edjucate the layman, and even remove some tarnish from the badge if it was a major event.

 

[Vonderbach]

Well sir, you have my apologies for what it's worth. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees and I jump to anger instead of trying to clarify first.

 

[III]

I had no idea there were so many cops on the board...

 

[Vonderbach]

I'm not a cop, but I play one on TV. (Wife really is one though.)

 

[GHILLIE]

Well sir, you have my apologies for what it's worth. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees and I jump to anger instead of trying to clarify first.

No need to apologize, and I understand your sensitivties.....and why my post triggered a reaction.....

I'm not upset with anyone, and I'm very thankful for the .org and being allowed to play here.

 

[skydivr]

A professional discourse that did not turn into a "cops are pigs and should have a stake driven thru their heart" drivel-type discussion (which is what some of the others lately degraded into). My hats off to you.

 

[sixpack577]

I'm not here to cop bash, but I just want to know one thing. Why is time after time, state after state, cops record us, and we can't record them?
I'm not arguing, I'm serious. I have no problem being recorded, but sometimes a second camera can better tell more of the story. Nobody's perfect, we all know there are bad cops out there too, and that they're the minority. But if you're doing your job correctly you should have nothing to hide. I'm not defending that rider either, he hung himself recording that. I am happy those ridiculous charges were dropped though, and the traffic violations stuck for obvious reasons.
I also understand the reasons for pulling threads to keep the peace. I've had folks jump all over me for complaining about the VA State Police in past threads, and not in a very civil manner either. Several of these folks were moderators. In those threads I spoke well of local law enforcement here, and Deputy Sheriffs, but had my complaints about the VA State Police only. This was in the hopes of it reaching the right ears. Perhaps a higher ranking Trooper to take note and monitor his officers behavior more closely. My rants were on excessive speed and overall bad attitudes, and I haven't had a ticket in over six years, and never an accident. These were my personal experiences as well as countless others I know and have met. They were all civil discussions until some folks started bashing me and those with similiar views.
So it's not the just the cop bashers here with a bad attitude, it's also those quick to judge that see things one sided. These folks seem to think that since they side with the law no matter what, that they can speak to those who don't however they please.
It's sad that the world has grown so that we can't use the Andy Griffith justice system, you know...common sense. Unfortunately, it's not common any more.
If you're a cop, GOD bless you, you've got a hard job. As we all know your actions and attitudes are watched closely, and everyone has a bad day. Being proffesional at all times is nearly impossible, but part of the job. When cops screw up, everyone complains, and rightfully so. It should be a constant reminder to be polite and proffesional at all times, and to remember you are all public servants, no matter how bad you wanna strangle the guy