another air box mod ???

[Goes9s]

 My point to my question was actually rhetorical because everyone should know the airbox mod is a ram air mod and needs that extra air on the track to be fully affective I was just trying to stop the, "I heard this or someone told me that" based what they saw on the dyno after the mod.  

The airbox mod is not a ram air mod . It takes somewhere around 190mph to develop just 7 psi in the Busa airbox . If your a drag racer thats a 7 second bike and 7 second bikes don't use airboxes . Aprox 145mph just to get some actual measurable positive pressure per quantified testing of old.

However , Helmholtz effect and induction wave tuning theory comes into play and changing the volume of the airbox will certainly alter the tuning resonances from short of the end of the exhaust to and past the exhaust valve . If you were to do nothing else to the engine , increasing the volume of the airbox would only change the rpm maximum TQ is made .

The 3-5 HP gains people see on the dyno when changing stacks with the small box mod are coming from something"s" your overlooking in regards to another V-stack topic along with the variables of the " somethings".

hmmm..."The airbox mod is not a ram air mod ". Let me see, two ram air ducts leading to an air box - we cut the air box to allow more air to the filter and then on to the stacks but that has no bearing on the ram air effect? WOW, you got me stumped...

. No disrespect but sometimes its like talking to my kids! Anytime you increase air flow hp and or torgue will change with proper fuel map tuning - C'MON, basic principles here - more air + more fuel = HP/torque. Hello - hence why we move to the turbo for bigger gains.

 

[mountainmotor]

You really think you have this Busa engine and it's surrounding components down don't you ?

If you had only attempted to listen a bit further or respond in a different way , especially after reading what I posted about airbox pressure . However , since you think i am akin to talking to children ... you can keep chasing your tail till the cows come home . Stemming from your posts in a previous thread , I purposely posted just enough to see what you do know . Now , I do  

    newbie

 

[SLEEPERBUSA]

Can I have some cake?

 

[Goes9s]

You really think you have this Busa engine and it's surrounding components down don't you ?

If you had only attempted to listen a bit further or respond in a different way , especially after reading what I posted about airbox pressure . However , since you think i am akin to talking to children ... you can keep chasing your tail till the cows come home . Stemming from your posts in a previous thread , I purposely posted just enough to see what you do know . Now , I do  

    newbie

I don't have it down yet but I will soon and I haven't chased my tail yet and probably never will because I gather massive amounts of research and data before a move forward (no guesswork). If you took my comments personally, sorry about that, its not personal but from what I've seen, people talking out their ass instead of facts, its just like the import car world I'm in. I didn't build a 700+HP car by luck. People think because they can change oil, do an airbox mod or even change cams they know what their talking about...guess again. What i get frustrated at is comments not based on facts or half truths. I listen to people in here but it better make sense or I will question you on it. If you can't take getting schooled, miss the bus and stay home that day. I've listen to people like SleeperBusa, Professor, CharlesBusa and a few others because I like what they said and it made sense to me.

Not a newbie - just new to this forum. I was probably riding bikes, racing cars and fightiing in Iraq in the first war and in Grenada before you could ride a tricyle.

 

[Goes9s]

Can I have some cake?

LOL...Did I miss my birthday again? That's a good thing, stopped counting anyways.

 

[Goes9s]

Your right I miss this comment; "It takes somewhere around 190mph to develop just 7 psi in the Busa airbox . If your a drag racer thats a 7 second bike and 7 second bikes don't use airboxes . Aprox 145mph just to get some actual measurable positive pressure per quantified testing of old".
Before I fly off the handle again are you saying that the airbox can see 7 lbs of pressure at 190 mph? Is that 7 lbs above atmospheric pressure? You know thats call boost and would be impossible. Here's a good question for you or anyone; how much pressure can be read in an intake manifold, at sea level, in an all moter vehichle? The car is at zero, you start the car, you nail it full throttle and you're not boosting - in a prefect world with a well built motor correct BMP, temp, dew point etc how much pressure can be read in that manifold sitting on a dyno.

 

[99'busa]

we were suppose to get 8" of snow here last night and we woke up this morning expecting 8" of snow and had 0" of snow. I took my daughter to school at 8:00 a.m. as usual the roads were a little icy instead of snowy some slush...got to the school and nobody there except a guy shoveling the snow dust. They had a 2 hour delay! I got up 2 hours before I had too

 

[SLEEPERBUSA]

we were suppose to get 8" of snow here last night and we woke up this morning expecting 8" of snow and had 0" of snow. I took my daughter to school at 8:00 a.m. as usual the roads were a little icy instead of snowy some slush...got to the school and nobody there except a guy shoveling the snow dust. They had a 2 hour delay! I got up 2 hours before I had too

Did ya ask him if his airbox was modified?

 

[DR1300R]

Whats a tre?

 

[99'busa]

we were suppose to get 8" of snow here last night and we woke up this morning expecting 8" of snow and had 0" of snow. I took my daughter to school at 8:00 a.m. as usual the roads were a little icy instead of snowy some slush...got to the school and nobody there except a guy shoveling the snow dust. They had a 2 hour delay! I got up 2 hours before I had too

Did ya ask him if his airbox was modified?

no but that is something i would do

 

[Goes9s]

Here's a good question for you or anyone; how much pressure can be read in an intake manifold, at sea level, in an all moter vehichle?  The car is at zero, you start the car, you nail it full throttle and you're not boosting - in a prefect world with a well built motor correct BMP, temp, dew point etc how much pressure can be read in that manifold sitting on a dyno.

Ok time is up, I gave you tons of hints within the question but the answer to my question is 14.7 lbs or 1 bar at full throttle. Yes, on a well built motor, usually with at least 20+ in of vacuum you can measure 14.7 lbs of pressure in the manifold which is equal to atmospheric pressure but don't get this confused with boost. BMP/Altimeters will skew this just a little so normally you will read about 14.3 "“ 14.6 lbs at sea level (can't use a boost pressure gage because the gage is designed to read above atmospheric) and any pressure above atmospheric would have to be forced inducted of some sort. You will never see pressure in a manifold greater than 14.7 pound unless you were in Siberia or boosting but at sea level and all motor "“ never; hence the word boost, a boost of pressure measurable above atmospheric.

So if you said you only measured 7 lbs of pressure in the air box at 195 mph (air box acts similar to a car manifold "“ when the intake & exhaust valves open and close the motor doesn't swallow all of the air in the air box but air keeps flowing in via the ram air ducts thus pressure builds in the air box (modified or not) or manifold for a car) so either (a) your motor is shot, valves bent, rings blown etc if you can't raise the pressure any greater than 7 lbs or (b) the 7 pounds is above atmospheric and you must be boosting. Even at the altitude I'm at I can still read 13.8 lbs of pressure in our manifold without boost. Sounds like you're regurgitating a bunch of wrong data.

You see I was the one in here asking basic questions "what is this"￾ and "what does that do"￾ to see who really knew what; I was playing you to see what you knew and now I know. Some things I'm not familiar with is air shifters, chains, swing arms etc; things that are not common in cars.

 

[k4mjk]

i did the mod with a yosh full system pc3 and a stock yosh map and pair blocked off the bike ran lean i used a richer map and it felt like a new machine it pulled like hell before but it is noticeably different now

i used map m312-521 from the powercommander website

 

[big ed]

If you search (air box mod) you will find a ton of threads that go in circles & end up

no where.this thread looks like its getting deep I hope more people chime in & share there input & that this thread will retire anymore new air box mods questions,doubts,concerns.if that happens maybe we can solve the dreaded

 tre threads.just keep it friendly guys

& stick to real world facts......thanks again

 

[mountainmotor]

Your right I miss this comment; "It takes somewhere around 190mph to develop just 7 psi in the Busa airbox . If your a drag racer thats a 7 second bike and 7 second bikes don't use airboxes . Aprox 145mph just to get some actual measurable positive pressure per quantified testing of old".  
Before I fly off the handle again are you saying that the airbox can see 7 lbs of pressure at 190 mph? Is that 7 lbs above atmospheric pressure?  You know thats call boost and would be impossible.  

I never said I was a know it all about all things engine but I tell you what , I know my way around these things plenty and can spot the one's winging it .

Your way off being anywhere close to knowing about the Busa induction design and function of the entire tract and why gains are had from stacks or other . If you knew , I think you would have posted .

Terminology --- boost . Maybe you can learn something about Millibars and how to convert that value into PSI from these series of tests since you say you have some type mathematical degree. You can also read and start using the correct terminology from here on out . Now of course these two links won't tell of how the aftermarket has tackled such leaking problems and or how several sets of what was once , one off components and now fully available aftermarket speed tools has helped some racers at Bonneville , Mirage ect .

When you make the decision to learn the why's of the Busa stacks and other topics about the airbox mod that you maintain is a ram air mod ,given your demeanor , here's a the coin so you can call someone who cares .  

  In case you still don't get it , thats all from me on the topic now or stacks in the future . So have your fun and make plenty more friends . I don't answer to anyone , even to the point of adding a decimal before a numeral in effort to correct as I mistakenly did earlier .

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9910_ram/index.html


http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9912_ram/index.html

 

[Professor]

Wow... let's keep this civil guys.

Goes9s....before you discount the info MM is giving do a search on his posts using the search icon by his name. The man is a wealth of knowledge on this bike.

The small air box mod is to remove the restriction and improve the internal flow of the air box. Ram air is not a really player in the mod for 95% of us. If I remember some of DaveOs posts, the ram air does no come into effect on the busa until 130 or so. For me, that may be a couple hundred feet at the track. I hope to log the airbox vacuum/pressure this year to get some data, then maybe seal the duct up a bit and try to get some real numbers.

 

[99'busa]

Your right I miss this comment; "It takes somewhere around 190mph to develop just 7 psi in the Busa airbox . If your a drag racer thats a 7 second bike and 7 second bikes don't use airboxes . Aprox 145mph just to get some actual measurable positive pressure per quantified testing of old".  
Before I fly off the handle again are you saying that the airbox can see 7 lbs of pressure at 190 mph? Is that 7 lbs above atmospheric pressure?  You know thats call boost and would be impossible.  

I never said I was a know it all about all things engine but I tell you what , I know my way around these things plenty and can spot the one's winging it .

Your way off being anywhere close to knowing about the Busa induction design and function of the entire tract and why gains are had from stacks or other . If you knew , I think you would have posted .

Terminology --- boost . Maybe you can learn something about Millibars and how to convert that value into PSI  from these series of tests since you say you have some type mathematical degree. You can also read and start using the correct terminology from here on out . Now of course these two links won't tell of how the aftermarket has tackled such leaking problems and or how several sets of what was once , one off components and now fully available aftermarket speed tools has helped some racers at Bonneville , Mirage ect .

When you make the decision to learn the why's of the Busa stacks and other topics about the airbox mod that you maintain is a ram air mod ,given your demeanor , here's a the coin so you can call someone who cares .  

  In case you still don't get it , thats all from me on the topic now or stacks in the future . So have your fun and make plenty more friends . I don't answer to anyone , even to the point of adding a decimal before a numeral in effort to correct as I mistakenly did earlier .

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9910_ram/index.html


http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9912_ram/index.html

very informational t.y.

 

[99'busa]

So it sounds like putting the fairing screens in the ram ports is no big deal...I was afraid of restricting any airflow.

and im a little confused..so is a lg. mod. USELESS until 130 mph.

OOOO...quick edit....what about those scoops?

 

[Professor]

and im a little confused..so is a lg. mod. USELESS until 130 mph.

OOOO...quick edit....what about those scoops?

In the common engines ...I'd guess to 1450 cc or so the large airbox mod could (likely) hurt the bike. The airbox is part of the whole tune. It a way it is the extension of the port. Its volume has been designed to provide a resonance hmmm "¦call it a pulse that complements the firing order and engine air needs. The flapper in it is to try to make it the best of both worlds but is a compromise in some ways. They way I understand it (from theory, articles, and reading busa specific results) when you put full exhaust on one it improves the airflow to the point the flapper becomes a slight restriction. It is there to increase lower rpm torque. Removing it cuts a bit on the bottom but adds to the top. From the results I have seen the airbox mod in combination with a full exhaust results in the torque being about the same at the bottom range as when it was all stock. You sure don't want to mod one with stock exhaust.

There are a few bikes that even change the length of the ram tubes at different rpms to further tune the bikes at different rpm ranges on the fly.

I can point you to a couple of article on ram air compensation that is programmed in the ECU if interested. It is pretty deep reading. I sure don't understand it 100% but there is some good info"¦.amazing info of the things that are programmed in.

 

[Goes9s]

Wow... let's keep this civil guys.

Goes9s....before you discount the info MM is giving do a search on his posts using the search icon by his name. The man is a wealth of knowledge on this bike.

The small air box mod is to remove the restriction and improve the internal flow of the air box. Ram air is not a really player in the mod for 95% of us. If I remember some of DaveOs posts, the ram air does no come into effect on the busa until 130 or so. For me, that may be a couple hundred feet at the track. I hope to log the airbox vacuum/pressure this year to get some data, then maybe seal the duct up a bit and try to get some real numbers.

Thanks Professor - It was civil until you try and challenge someones knowledge or opinion then someone gets theirr little but hurt.   A lot of words is not a wealth of knowledge and so far Dave hasn't proven one thing in fact, just theory in his own opinion and if he never chimed in on my threads again I would be a happier person in life.

And Dave, I referred to boost as that is as far as I thought you could understand!  You want to compare brain pans bring it on!  Ooh millibars how technical...

You remind me of something that goes on quite frequently here where I live. People keep going to this one shop who has this big reputation for motor swaps but low and behold they end up coming back to my friends shop (another person with a mechanical engineering degree) to finish the job correctly. Hmmm - education is power! Why do you think they call it HIGHER learning.

 

[big ed]

alrighty then.I wanted things to stay civil but hey if you cant beat'em join'em.......fight!fight!fight!