Another Powercommander question

[techbum]

After studying many of the maps for the powercommander, I noticed that for bikes that have been modified.......hence...full-aftermarket exhaust,K&N air filters,etc.....the values run much leaner than the ones for stock bikes. Why is this?
I would have thought that with increased air flow and better exhaust exiting that one would be able to increase the fuel values......yet the maps for the stock engines are much richer.
Does it have to do with more efficient burning or something?
Please clear this up for me if anyone knows.........Thanks

 

[Johnnycheese]

it is because thanks to FI you are able to lean out just were big brother checks for emmissions. they make them fat due to they (factory) knows you will add pipes and intake.

 

[inthexring]

with a power commander does this end the rev limiter....and is the rev limited in every gear? and with a power commander in sixth gear it will puch up to 200, is that correct??

 

[MeltDownZ]

with a power commander does this end the rev limiter....and is the rev limited in every gear?   and with a power commander in sixth gear it will puch up to 200, is that correct??

The power commander does not affect the rev limiter at all at anytime.  A TRE which ultimately affects timing will get you past the speed limiter in 6th gear as a side effect of what is does.  A TRE intercepts the gear indicator signal going to the computer and passes on a signal that indicates the bike is in 5th gear at all times.  With this, the timing for 5th gear is used all the time and the 6th gear speed limiter is never engaged.  Relative to 5th gear, the timings for gears 1-4 are retarded at bit (set back).  By using the timing for 5th gear, you are relatively advancing the stock timing used for gears 1-4.  A lot of people perceive the TRE as smoothing out the performance for lower rpms.  I tend to think it makes city driving a lot smoother on my busa.

While it hasn't been asked here yet, it's worth mentioning that the TRE can be used along with a PowerCommander.  TRE affects timing, PCIIIusb affects fuel mix (PCIIIR can be used to adjust timing as well).  

Note:  At JohnnyCheese's request, I am adding a note here.  While the PCIIIusb does not affect timing, the PCIIIR can.  However, most people buy the III and use it for the purposes of adjusting fuel mix.  Dynojet states that the IIIR is generally used in conjunction with engine mods and is generally not needed to smooth out performance.  JohnnyCheese has used it to smooth out bike performance.



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[ralnsplder]

TRE affects timing, PC affects fuel mix.

In a way, doesn't the TRE indirectly affect fuel too?. If it is telling the bikes brain that it is in 5th gear, doesn't the bike automatically give the more fuel to compensate for the ram air you would be getting in 5th gear? I thouhgt that this is all part of the bikes computer and it sending fuel to the FI.

Johnny Cheese, tried to explaine this to me in another post a while back. I may be wrong and missunderstood his comments. so Johnny if you read this can you give some feedback?

 

[Johnnycheese]

with a power commander does this end the rev limiter....and is the rev limited in every gear?   and with a power commander in sixth gear it will puch up to 200, is that correct??

The power commander does not affect the rev limiter at all at anytime.  A TRE which ultimately affects timing will get you past the speed limiter in 6th gear as a side effect of what is does.  A TRE intercepts the gear indicator signal going to the computer and passes on a signal that indicates the bike is in 5th gear at all times.  With this, the timing for 5th gear is used all the time and the 6th gear speed limiter is never engaged.  Relative to 5th gear, the timings for gears 1-4 are retarded at bit (set back).  By using the timing for 5th gear, you are relatively advancing the stock timing used for gears 1-4.  A lot of people perceive the TRE as smoothing out the performance for lower rpms.  I tend to think it makes city driving a lot smoother on my busa.

While it hasn't been asked here yet, it's worth mentioning that the TRE can be used along with a PowerCommander.  TRE affects timing, PC affects fuel mix.

Really a Pc doesn't affect timing?

explain please I have to know this, my PC3R changes timing but you say it doesn't?

??
Yet More B.S. from someone who doesn't have a clue???
and if you want to get rid of the limiter don't buy a tre you can do it for free. move the 6th gear wire to the 5th gear wire and you are done. It's free and you don't mess with the bikes maps

 

[ralnsplder]

and if you want to get rid of the limiter don't buy a tre you can do it for free. move the 6th gear wire to the 5th gear wire and you are done. It's free and you don't mess with the bikes maps

Can you really do this?

if so could you explain what wires you need to work with, i know tomake a tre you connect a resistor from the pink wire to the black one, but do not know what ones for what gears

 

[ChronosWS]

IIRC, the PCIIIr (as opposed to the PCIIIusb) adjusts both timing and fuel maps. If this is the case, is the TRE redundant (has anyone here used a PCIIIr?) Can anyone who has used both compare them (with respect to their ability to adjust timing?)

 

[Johnnycheese]

Well, anytime meltdown?

??

 

[zukracer]

hey JC, wanna take a looksee at my weird battery/starting thread and chime in with what you think is wrong for me

 

[PACIFICBUSA]

if you want to get rid of the limiter don't buy a tre you can do it for free. move the 6th gear wire to the 5th gear wire and you are done. It's free and you don't mess with the bikes maps

will the same apply to a 99-00 model, Cheese-O?

I was under the assumption that the 99-00 models were not in need of the TRE.

Am I wrong with this?

 

[Johnnycheese]

01-05 the 99-00 do not need anything

 

[Johnnycheese]

hey JC, wanna take a looksee at my weird battery/starting thread and chime in with what you think is wrong for me

? where?

 

[bacharles]

interesting thread...

 

[Johnnycheese]

Well, anytime meltdown?

??

anytime???

 

[ralnsplder]

Well, anytime meltdown?

??

anytime???

what do you mean by this?

 

[Johnnycheese]

with a power commander does this end the rev limiter....and is the rev limited in every gear?   and with a power commander in sixth gear it will puch up to 200, is that correct??

The power commander does not affect the rev limiter at all at anytime.  A TRE which ultimately affects timing will get you past the speed limiter in 6th gear as a side effect of what is does.  A TRE intercepts the gear indicator signal going to the computer and passes on a signal that indicates the bike is in 5th gear at all times.  With this, the timing for 5th gear is used all the time and the 6th gear speed limiter is never engaged.  Relative to 5th gear, the timings for gears 1-4 are retarded at bit (set back).  By using the timing for 5th gear, you are relatively advancing the stock timing used for gears 1-4.  A lot of people perceive the TRE as smoothing out the performance for lower rpms.  I tend to think it makes city driving a lot smoother on my busa.

While it hasn't been asked here yet, it's worth mentioning that the TRE can be used along with a PowerCommander.  TRE affects timing, PC affects fuel mix.

Really a Pc doesn't affect timing?

explain please I have to know this, my PC3R changes timing but you say it doesn't?

??
Yet More B.S. from someone who doesn't have a clue???
and if you want to get rid of the limiter don't buy a tre you can do it for free. move the 6th gear wire to the 5th gear wire and you are done. It's free and you don't mess with the bikes maps

This?

?

 

[ralnsplder]

gotcha

 

[techbum]

UH.....excuse me?......getting back to the original question?..............

 

[MeltDownZ]

with a power commander does this end the rev limiter....and is the rev limited in every gear?   and with a power commander in sixth gear it will puch up to 200, is that correct??

The power commander does not affect the rev limiter at all at anytime.  A TRE which ultimately affects timing will get you past the speed limiter in 6th gear as a side effect of what is does.  A TRE intercepts the gear indicator signal going to the computer and passes on a signal that indicates the bike is in 5th gear at all times.  With this, the timing for 5th gear is used all the time and the 6th gear speed limiter is never engaged.  Relative to 5th gear, the timings for gears 1-4 are retarded at bit (set back).  By using the timing for 5th gear, you are relatively advancing the stock timing used for gears 1-4.  A lot of people perceive the TRE as smoothing out the performance for lower rpms.  I tend to think it makes city driving a lot smoother on my busa.

While it hasn't been asked here yet, it's worth mentioning that the TRE can be used along with a PowerCommander.  TRE affects timing, PC affects fuel mix.

Really a Pc doesn't affect timing?

explain please I have to know this, my PC3R changes timing but you say it doesn't?

??
Yet More B.S. from someone who doesn't have a clue???
and if you want to get rid of the limiter don't buy a tre you can do it for free. move the 6th gear wire to the 5th gear wire and you are done. It's free and you don't mess with the bikes maps

I would have responded earlier but I haven't been online.

Sure a PCIIIR changes timing. But it's a more advanced feature that is generally used to compensate for engine mods. For a basic discussion for someone who is new to how PC's and TRE's work my descriptions were appropriate.