Another Powercommander question

[Johnnycheese]

I guess you never tried it in a stock bike???
works great playing with timing smooth as silk and more HP and torque.
You need to remove your TRE and see that if it did make a change most bikes don't need it.
So you need to change that remark or youwill have people thinking a PC3R doesn't do timing

 

[MeltDownZ]

After studying many of the maps for the powercommander, I noticed that for bikes that have been modified.......hence...full-aftermarket exhaust,K&N air filters,etc.....the values run much leaner than the ones for stock bikes. Why is this?
I would have thought that with increased air flow and better exhaust exiting that one would be able to increase the fuel values......yet the maps for the stock engines are much richer.
Does it have to do with more efficient burning or something?
Please clear this up for me if anyone knows.........Thanks

This can be confusing no doubt. But, you need to drill down on the definition of 'increased airflow'. You can increase air by volume and velocity. For example, you can have higher velocity of air (the air is moving faster), but with a lower volume of air. A lot of performance has to do with air velocity and not just volume. Therefore, propery settings often include a leaner mix to offset higher air velocities with smaller volumes of air. There are a lot of other factors that affect fuel mix but this is just one example to help answer your original question.

 

[MeltDownZ]

Yet More B.S. from someone who doesn't have a clue???

it is because thanks to FI you are able to lean out just were big brother checks for emmissions. they make them fat due to they (factory) knows you will add pipes and intake.

Johnnycheese,

You crack me up.  You say I don't have a clue but my info is regularly backed up with numerous sources.  You on the other hand spit out many opinions that I cannot ever find a single shred of evidence to validate.  And I check a lot of sources which include racing techs who are certified in various FI technologies, Dynoject, and the Internet.  This bit about the factory richening up the mix in preprep for adding pipes and intake.  You make me laugh.  A lot of aftermarket pipes/intake require you to lean your mix so they are doing you no favor by richening it.  They are also working against themselves with regards to emissions by adding additional fuel.



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[MeltDownZ]

I guess you never tried it in a stock bike???
works great playing with timing smooth as silk and more HP and torque.
You need to remove your TRE and see that if it did make a change most bikes don't need it.
So you need to change that remark or youwill have people thinking a PC3R doesn't do timing

I've tried pleanty of A/B tests with and without the TRE. It's much better with the TRE in. Man, I wrote a freakin essay on that. I'll updates my comment to say that the IIIR can do timing but most people buy the III and use it for fuel mix.

 

[BiggerDanno]

it is because thanks to FI you are able to lean out just were big brother checks for emmissions. they make them fat due to they (factory) knows you will add pipes and intake.

As received from the factory, the Busa is too lean at an idle, this is to help emissions. If they had made it rich as you say, then the emissions would be higher.

Try adding +3 on the 0 & 2% throttle between 1-2k rpms...the Busa will idle much better.

Adding an intake to the Busa? Huh??

 

[Johnnycheese]

UH.....excuse me?......getting back to the original question?..............

I did answer it in my first post.

 

[ChronosWS]

I guess you never tried it in a stock bike???
works great playing with timing smooth as silk and more HP and torque.
You need to remove your TRE and see that if it did make a change most bikes don't need it.
So you need to change that remark or youwill have people thinking a PC3R doesn't do timing

I've tried pleanty of A/B tests with and without the TRE. It's much better with the TRE in. Man, I wrote a freakin essay on that. I'll updates my comment to say that the IIIR can do timing but most people buy the III and use it for fuel mix.

So, if I am gonna do an aftermarket full exhaust upgrade, should I get the PCIIIr, or a PCIII and the TRE?

 

[MeltDownZ]

So, if I am gonna do an aftermarket full exhaust upgrade, should I get the PCIIIr, or a PCIII and the TRE?

I recommend the IIIusb, but, here's the difference:

PCIIIusb $332
- usb connection to computer
- Can't do timing out of the box but you really only need that for engine mods above and beyond headers/pipes/and airfilter.
In early 2005 there will be a timing add-on for those who want it.

PCIIIr $403
- 9 pin serial connection to computer (a lot of newer computers don't have serial any more)
- Does timing mods.

I'd get the PCIIIusb, download the proper map, and then add the SmartTre from Ivan's. If you want things dialed in even more, follow up by having a custom map done for about $200. The map from the sight along with the TRE may very well smooth things out for your liking and you may not feel the need for the custom map. However, if there are some weak spots in your power curve you may want to address it with a tuner and get the custom map.




I'd also call Dynojet and ask them at 1-800-992-4993

 

[techbum]

One reason I asked this question is.... when I installed my PCIIIr, I down-loaded a map for after-market air filter(K&N),and Two Brothers full-exhaust, even though I only have the
slip-ons. I should also mention that I have done the air-box mod. My bike at a steady 4000rpm would 'buck'(any gear). I knew this was a symptom of being too lean. I then manually enriched the low and midrange 1 click. The bike ran smooth afterwards. Since, as I mentioned, I have been studying many of the different maps and noticed the stock maps are running richer. It's just that I would have thought it would be the other way around.
And sorry Johnny, but richening for emission testing doesn't make sense.
But I have learned that the best thing to do would be to go to an authorized Dyno-jet tuner for a custom map.
Oh yeah, I'm keeping my switchable TRE too because I can feel a big difference for the better. (Just easier to start with it turned off).

 

[MeltDownZ]

One reason I asked this question is.... when I installed my PCIIIr, I down-loaded a map for after-market air filter(K&N),and Two Brothers full-exhaust, even though I only have the
slip-ons. I should also mention that I have done the air-box mod. My bike at a steady 4000rpm would 'buck'(any gear). I knew this was a symptom of being too lean. I then manually enriched the low and midrange 1 click. The bike ran smooth afterwards. Since, as I mentioned, I have been studying many of the different maps and noticed the stock maps are running richer. It's just that I would have thought it would be the other way around.
 And sorry Johnny, but richening for emission testing doesn't make sense.
 But I have learned that the best thing to do would be to go to an authorized Dyno-jet tuner for a custom map.
     Oh yeah, I'm keeping my switchable TRE too because I can feel a big difference for the better. (Just easier to start with it turned off).

A full exhaust is a lot different from bolt-ons. A full exhaust would generally require especially more tweaking in the lower rpms than bolt-ons with the standard header. The Dynojet folks said that it would be easier to enter-change maps between brands of bolt-ons than it would to enter-change maps of full-exhaust/standard headers. I've had a local tuner express the same thing.

 

[Johnnycheese]

One reason I asked this question is.... when I installed my PCIIIr, I down-loaded a map for after-market air filter(K&N),and Two Brothers full-exhaust, even though I only have the
slip-ons. I should also mention that I have done the air-box mod. My bike at a steady 4000rpm would 'buck'(any gear). I knew this was a symptom of being too lean. I then manually enriched the low and midrange 1 click. The bike ran smooth afterwards. Since, as I mentioned, I have been studying many of the different maps and noticed the stock maps are running richer. It's just that I would have thought it would be the other way around.
 And sorry Johnny, but richening for emission testing doesn't make sense.
 But I have learned that the best thing to do would be to go to an authorized Dyno-jet tuner for a custom map.
     Oh yeah, I'm keeping my switchable TRE too because I can feel a big difference for the better. (Just easier to start with it turned off).

e mail me your map and let me look at it, I bet I can fix it.
Johnnycheese@sbcglobal.net

 

[Johnnycheese]

I guess you never tried it in a stock bike???
works great playing with timing smooth as silk and more HP and torque.
You need to remove your TRE and see that if it did make a change most bikes don't need it.
So you need to change that remark or youwill have people thinking a PC3R doesn't do timing

I've tried pleanty of A/B tests with and without the TRE.  It's much better with the TRE in.  Man, I wrote a freakin essay on that.  I'll updates my comment to say that the IIIR can do timing but most people buy the III and use it for fuel mix.

So, if I am gonna do an aftermarket full exhaust upgrade, should I get the PCIIIr, or a PCIII and the TRE?

get a PC3R
310 TYD
you will be happier.timing is nice rather stock or modded period.
the usb is nice but cost more to map it maps every 250 rpms
but if you want to go that way 280 tyd

 

[techbum]

Thanks Johnny...I'll do that ......
That's what I love about this board......people helping others......By the way....many thanks to the others who replied......Meltdown, you rock too.....

 

[Johnnycheese]

What a POS map, Give me a minute and I will have you fixed up

 

[Johnnycheese]

you have mail