Anyone else ticked about this?


Your kidding right... You case revolves around the fact that Ford used LEGAL tax credits that were offered and LOANS that have to be paid back..

Really?

Ford chose not to take FREE bailout money but instead chose to take advantage of good business decisions and you think that makes them too big and unfair...

Its amazing how people tend to point fingers....
 
so youre for the use of tarp funds to bailout a business on the verge of bankrupcy?
 
so youre for the use of tarp funds to bailout a business on the verge of bankrupcy?

Who are you speaking to?

For those that forgot...

TARP allows the United States Department of the Treasury to purchase or insure up to $700 Billion of "troubled assets", defined as "(A) residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before March 14, 2008, the purchase of which the Secretary determines promotes financial market stability; and (B) any other financial instrument that the Secretary, after consultation with the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, determines the purchase of which is necessary to promote financial market stability, but only upon transmittal of such determination, in writing, to the appropriate committees of Congress.
 
The first link is broken, the second one I've never heard of the source, the third one proves Ford didn't take Gov't money (unless I totally read that wrong)
And the last one is speculation that Ford took a "loan" that it is required to pay back which seems like the other two don't have to? I could be wrong. I usually am..

the third was put there to show how they got themselves into and out of the hole they were in, they borrowed billions after making horrible business decision for about a decade. it just doesnt go into where the money came from. it was a loan, but who loans to companies going out of business. the goverment. this is the kind of stuff i believe jeff was talking about, they bury themselves, cut alot of workforce and all their horrible decisions, get loans, do good, then may or may not go back to poor business model.
 
It could all go into the whole old habits die hard rule. I still to this day think ford did a better job of this than the other two. No ifs ands or buts about it..

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Who are you speaking to?

For those that forgot...

what is the relevance of that to what i asked you? youre ok with tarp money being used to make loans to people that are going out of business?

youre ok with fed backed loans on green tech? which is based on carbon based global warming non sense and oil speculation.

youre with the bailout of the supply chain and ford reaping benefits?

youre ok with the gov allowing a tax credit to people that purchase green vehicle?
 
It could all go into the whole old habits die hard rule. I still to this day think ford did a better job of this than the other two. No ifs ands or buts about it..

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i agree, im a ford man also, all my vehicles are currently ford. but i was upset when i read all this crap last year.
 
It sucks, but its the same catch 22 as the wisconsin teachers thread. If the government lets the big three fold so many people would lose their jobs that the government would most likely wind up spending more money in welfare, unemployment to those workers than it did to the bailout. I have no proof of this, but you catch my drift, right?

Sent from my HTC EVO using Tapatalk.
 
It sucks, but its the same catch 22 as the wisconsin teachers thread. If the government lets the big three fold so many people would lose their jobs that the government would most likely wind up spending more money in welfare, unemployment to those workers than it did to the bailout. I have no proof of this, but you catch my drift, right?

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yes i see that, but in free market people are allowed to succed or fail, which is the argument people use to justify huge amounts of wealth. but that argument is no where around when someone is going broke and needs some help.

im all for people and business getting wealthy, in turn it "should" mean better life for middle and lower class. but it doesnt always.
 
yes i see that, but in free market people are allowed to succed or fail, which is the argument people use to justify huge amounts of wealth. but that argument is no where around when someone is going broke and needs some help.

im all for people and business getting wealthy, in turn it "should" mean better life for middle and lower class. but it doesnt always.

Once again your kidding right......

Go look at what a Ford worker makes and tell me that they don't have it well off for the level of education they have invested...

Please tell us what your defination of middle class? Assuming my Google ninja skills are accurate

Ford now has about 45,000 UAW-represented workers in the U.S., and 54,000 factory workers in North America.

General Motors trimmed down its employee base to 68500 people.

Chrysler at the end of 2009 there were 59,000 employees.

I would bet 90% or more of these jobs would be middle class....

Thats a lot of people getting paid a really good salary because of those evil big companies...
 
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Once again your kidding right......

Go look at what a Ford worker makes and tell me that they don't have it well off for the level of education they have invested...

Please tell us what your defination of middle class? Assuming my Google ninja skills are accurate

I would bet 90% or more of these jobs would be middle class....

Thats a lot of people getting paid a really good salary because of those evil big companies...

wtf is your problem, that wasnt even directed at ford as is the whole corporation world as a whole.

the companies are not evil, sometime they have the same side effect americans seem to be having these days, they do the worst thing possible for their interest. just for instance, look at wal mart. if wal mart could treat an employee somewhat decent they would not have a 50% turn over rate. companies that have a revolving door and turn HUGE profits could turn even more profits by keeping the people they waste the money training.

when did i say anyone that has a job isnt doing well? imho if your working youre not doing bad.

what i did say is a corporation (any corporation) doing well should translate to better working conditions (total compensation) but it always doesnt. alot of companies fail after reaching high levels of profit because of poor management.

ford did horrible for years leading up to these circumstances, by their own poor business model. they let their factories get run into the ground, they produced models nobody wanted. they had recalls in 23,000,000 range, they had recalls over cars turning into fireballs. i guess all this was caused by the unions and their over paid and protected workers huh? cause its these cicumstances that led up to what happend now.
 
From a google search, it says that Ford's reported 2010 earnings were 111.2B. 1% of 1B is 10M. Just for a little perspective.

At first glance, I thought it was (and still pretty much think it is) an absurd amount for a bonus, especially when it's 4-5 times more than their base salary (varies depedning upon search). ??? We just got bonuses at my company for the first time in 4 yrs. and it's 15% of our base salary and I thought that was outstanding, borderline too much, given the economic situation were supposedly coming out of.
The fact of the matter is...anyone who sits here and criticizes the business accumen of a Fortune500 CEO is gonna come across as a retard, or says it's too much is a simply a socialist, but I do have to think that giving out these types of bonuses can't be the best business strategy in the world. These corporations have $#itty business practices and that's not me...their historical data is there. In fact, I think it plays an underlying theme in our American society at the present.
I'm not the most business savvy person in the world, but it does appear as though there's some fiscal excess still occurring, and we're nowhere close to being out of the storm yet. If the company (or industry) I was involved with recently fell down an enormous $#!thole and somehow managed to regain its footing...you can be d@mn sure it wouldn't happen again and I'd be very wary of the previous practices that got us in that situation AND LEARN. I'd love to see the business model of a truly successful company that finds it necessary to give generational-impacting bonuses just a year or two removed from near collapse. :rofl: Something tells me those individuals that received those bonuses would have done just fine with a 1/3 of that amount, and that type of true conservatism would help to ensure the company's survival from decade to decade, not year to year. But it's that same type of attitude that some have posted in this thread that is if someone wants to give it to me, then I'll take it. I'd be willing to guarantee that these are the exact same people that would be the first ones to say something about liberal handouts or being given something that wasn't earned. Earned is the question at hand, and I simply don't think any employee (within an acceptable business model in a real world) can perform in a manner to receive a 300% bonus. Once again, if that's possible, their business models are $#!tty.

You have to pay attention to the message that these types of actions send. It's the same "Do as the front I put up, not as I message and actions that I actually do" mentality. I'd be willing to bet these guys are as fiscally conservative as the day is long, yet find a way to pass this example of excess off as Capitalism, therefore it doesn't apply to them.

These corporations have worked for so long and hard (successfully I might add) at manipulating budgetary rules, regulations, and concepts that at this point, I find it hard to believe that anyone truly knows what corporations like these are really making anymore. And that, is what I think is really looming over this country's head. I think the previous bailouts (even though Ford wasn't involved) were only a preview of what's to come for the American business sector.
It doesn't make matters any better that the average American is severely retarded when it comes to budgeting and financial matters. It makes me think of the times when I had just graduated from college and had no idea how to budget or prioritize my money. Everything would be great after payday or tax returns. There was money for beer, restaurants, and other luxuries in the beginning. As it got closer to the end of the month, or the cash flow, I'd find myself attempting to curb it by cutting out the stupid, unimpactful things like *****ing at my girl about getting name brands at the grocery store when I'd just went out and had dinner and drinks with friends at the bar. :rofl: I thank whomever for maturity. It just seems that many of these CEOs actions are more in line with those of a financially ignorant person (as described above) than the responsible, level-headedness you'd expect from someone of that stature.
 
wtf is your problem, that wasnt even directed at ford as is the whole corporation world as a whole.

the companies are not evil, sometime they have the same side effect americans seem to be having these days, they do the worst thing possible for their interest. just for instance, look at wal mart. if wal mart could treat an employee somewhat decent they would not have a 50% turn over rate. companies that have a revolving door and turn HUGE profits could turn even more profits by keeping the people they waste the money training.

when did i say anyone that has a job isnt doing well? imho if your working youre not doing bad.

what i did say is a corporation (any corporation) doing well should translate to better working conditions (total compensation) but it always doesnt. alot of companies fail after reaching high levels of profit because of poor management.

ford did horrible for years leading up to these circumstances, by their own poor business model. they let their factories get run into the ground, they produced models nobody wanted. they had recalls in 23,000,000 range, they had recalls over cars turning into fireballs. i guess all this was caused by the unions and their over paid and protected workers huh? cause its these cicumstances that led up to what happend now.

That's business, managing and predicting, risk, loss and gain. It's not a perfect idealistic world. All these things run in a cycle and are expected. At different points in the cycle it is necessary to allocate resources to different
places.

Can't figure you out. Always playing both ends towards the middle and you think I'm looking for and argument by asking simple questions, to which you reply with insults. Your pissed when corporations fail and your pissed when they are too successful.

Please at least capitalize Americans, unless your pissed at the Home Of The Free too.
 
- Ford didn't have to ask for bailout money - they hocked all their assets (property/plant/equipment) in 2006 - saw it coming. Doesn't mean it was fically responsible, they just borrowed while the borrowing was still there. They are still in hock up to their eyeballs and may yet require a bailout if gas goes out of sight and stifles any improvement in sales.

- Ford would not have closed those plants, if they were selling enough cars for it to operate them at a profit. Fact is demand is not high enough to justify leaving your plant open if it is just an operating drain on the company.

- Companies do NOT exist to provide jobs. They exist to make a profit for their owners (the stockholders). If the stockholders chose to pay that bonus, that is their right to do so. This may sound harsh, but it is a fact. The premise that they could have left an underperforming or not needed factory open to simply provide jobs, yet paid a large bonus to the CEO is severely flawed. That sounds like Union propaganda to me. Our government seems to have decided this is the way to go, and it's going to break the country.

Having said ALL that, the pay scale for senior management has gotten WAY out of hand. When our business went south, nobody here took a bigger pay cut than me, either in dollar amount nor percentages, and I have a LOT more at stake than an employee. However, when business improves, I'll also stand to do better in the opposite direction.
 
This entire thread is why the unions got what they got in negotiations. When the top execs get so much money, they have nothing to say when the bottom guys ask for a little more. This has continued for decades. Everyone has raped the system, starting with the top execs. They lead and the union follows.
 
Q:
if Wal-mart is such a poorly run operation.....
1. Why is that I never see one closed?
2. I have never known anyone laid-off by Wal-mart?
3. Is always hiring?

Wal-mart took no Gov. money, paid bonus to its employees and is "NON-UNION".
 
Q:
if Wal-mart is such a poorly run operation.....
1. Why is that I never see one closed?
2. I have never known anyone laid-off by Wal-mart?
3. Is always hiring?

Wal-mart took no Gov. money, paid bonus to its employees and is "NON-UNION".

why are they always hiring. that is what im getting at.

ive worked there. ive seen people decline their special cancer coverage plan, to be able to take home a little more money to pay their bills. only to work there 15+years and develop cancer and be out on their ass broke and unable to work. everyone cuts their own deal, yet still if you pay someone a meagers wage and offer them horrible options for coverage, the only option left is to try to find one privately which is hard for some with pre existing conditions.

they dont lay off people because they will pay anyone the same, and need the employee. but ive seen dept of a store close and the employees get 2 checks and nothing else.

what bonuses are paid? stock sharing? stock that hasnt made a move and only perpuates their own value? or the elusive quartely bonus that seems to be happening less and less?

yea they are non union and they have a poor excuse for it. they have open door policy, but when upper management is all related guess how well it works out for a person out of the loop with a problem.

i didnt say they were bad, i said they could make more money if they could keep their employees. i understand lazy people get these type of jobs because they require no education or skill. that leads to some of the turnover rate, but not all.
 
That's business, managing and predicting, risk, loss and gain. It's not a perfect idealistic world. All these things run in a cycle and are expected. At different points in the cycle it is necessary to allocate resources to different
places.

Can't figure you out. Always playing both ends towards the middle and you think I'm looking for and argument by asking simple questions, to which you reply with insults. Your pissed when corporations fail and your pissed when they are too successful.

Please at least capitalize Americans, unless your pissed at the Home Of The Free too.

you have a comprehension problem i dont care enough to explain it to you. it has nothing to do with predication of risk when you run a company into the ground to get fed credits and backed loans. its plain irresponsible.

your right i dont play one side. i like to look at problems from all sides as usually most have a valid point and even if i dont think so they do. they put it out there and i'll listen. im not pissed when they fail or when they are too succesful. im pissed when greed leads them to failure, they get help and forget to help the ones that got them there. not saying who is owed what, but its a complicated issue you cant dispell with capitalism or demonize them for.

i dont capitilize anything, im not gonna start for you, thats the great part of being an american, im free.
 
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