Anyone that has done a track day.

[megawatt]

I always start out in the slow group. I would rather pass others and have my lap times bump me up to the next faster group. And you don't need a timing system (not all organizations have lap timers) to prove your to fast for a certain group, the track officials will know what is going on.

Besides you never know who is going to be doing the trackday so the "group abilities" are never really set in stone. I once did a trackday the day before a WERA race weekend when final season points would be tallied. There were so many expert racers that used the trackday as practice they filled up the fast and intermediate group. There was no real "slow" group that day. It was the fastest "slow" group I ever saw and they could not bump people up to a faster group because there were no spaces and groups are limited to 33 riders. I got passed by everyone on two wheels with riders from 16 to 54yrs of age.



Slow group - track day orientation school, slow guys, shiney bikes, beginners. Guys out to ride fast and have a good time away from police, drivers on cell phones, dogs in the street, etc.

Intermediate - More experienced group, some quick guys. Fast guys from the slow group that though they were fast becuase they passed everyone in the slow group and now graduated to this group, but are actually just dangerous guys about to be humbled. This is typically the group that has the most wrecks and run offs.

Fast group - Club racers looking to practice, most experienced riders, seriously fast guys that are fun to watch because they know what they are doing.

 

[Tufbusa]

Doyle, have you attended any instructional classes or self taught?

 

[raydog]

Steven, kinda both, I'm 63 years old and had a 250cc Ducati Diana cafe racer in 1964, over 70 bikes since then. I've been to CA Superbike School twice, rode alot @ Willow big track in 80's in a club called Track Riders (people like Nick Ienatsch there to coach). Just a heck of a lot of fast miles over many years! BTW, I have fantasized about comin up there and letting you teach me a thing or two! Doyle

 

[macon454]

I usually go by the lap times that i am running compared to the other riders lap times, I think that is a good starting point, But i have never been to any other track besides Hallett. So each one has got to be different and you wont know your lap times tell you do a few sessions at a new track. I like to ride the race class at Hallett because everyone turns pretty close to the same laps and everyone is smooth and predictable. But i am sure at some of the other tracks that I would like to go to, I would not ride the race class because they would be alot faster, So i would compare lap times to see which class i should be in. Although I think i would try to always ride the fastest class possible because usually the faster classes are less people and smoother riders, Sometimes there are alot more people in the other classes and alot more squirrels riding all over the track. Plus i think if you ride with faster riders you will get faster. But that is all just my opinion.

 

[raydog]

I usually go by the lap times that i am running compared to the other riders lap times, I think that is a good starting point, But i have never been to any other track besides Hallett. So each one has got to be different and you wont know your lap times tell you do a few sessions at a new track. I like to ride the race class at Hallett because everyone turns pretty close to the same laps and everyone is smooth and predictable. But i am sure at some of the other tracks that I would like to go to, I would not ride the race class because they would be alot faster, So i would compare lap times to see which class i should be in. Although I think i would try to always ride the fastest class possible because usually the faster classes are less people and smoother riders, Sometimes there are alot more people in the other classes and alot more squirrels riding all over the track. Plus i think if you ride with faster riders you will get faster. But that is all just my opinion.

I think those are really good points Macon. Especially the issue re: correlation between faster class = more predictibility. If it were 20 years ago and I still wanted to do a Phd thesis, breaking all that down scientifically would be really interesting. Any veteran track riders "know" what is so but credibility soars when there is solid data to illustrate it. I would love to take 5 tracks and analyze cause of incidents, including rider personality. Anyways, my mission (especially now that I'm older) is to go faster AND increase safety at the same time.
I am NOT an authority but for 50 years I've been down twice (tarmac not dirt) and I attribute that record to knowing when to hold em and when to fold em.
Doyle

 

[Tufbusa]

Steven, kinda both, I'm 63 years old and had a 250cc Ducati Diana cafe racer in 1964, over 70 bikes since then. I've been to CA Superbike School twice, rode alot @ Willow big track in 80's in a club called Track Riders (people like Nick Ienatsch there to coach). Just a heck of a lot of fast miles over many years! BTW, I have fantasized about comin up there and letting you teach me a thing or two! Doyle

You are welcome any time you want to come Buster! Would love to have you! You and I would be the two "Old Dudes" out playing with the kids

Every once in a while I get that blank stare when I take my helmet off. I'm sure you do as well!

I don't know how many bikes I've owned but I've had something on two wheels for more than 40 years!

Interesting thread Doyle. I'd like to see every member get in a couple days of play time on the track every season. I think it would reduce the number of get offs and save a little skin for sure.

 

[raydog]

You are welcome any time you want to come Buster! Would love to have you! You and I would be the two "Old Dudes" out playing with the kids

Every once in a while I get that blank stare when I take my helmet off. I'm sure you do as well!

I don't know how many bikes I've owned but I've had something on two wheels for more than 40 years!

Interesting thread Doyle. I'd like to see every member get in a couple days of play time on the track every season. I think it would reduce the number of get offs and save a little skin for sure.

No doubt...manditory track days for all! And yes, I love to take my helmet off and show em what I do when away from the rest home! Hey, I was telling MJM the other day that my family and I are looking at the Corvalis, OR area for a retirement spot. Maybe someday I'll have the honor of being called a "PNW rider".
Doyle

 

[PaceMaster]

I think it's important to recognize that track days can differ dramatically from track to track, company to company, the composition of an A group on May 27th vrs. May 29th (who shows up), early day sessions vrs end of day sessions......there's a lot of variables. For sure if this thread accomplishes anything, I hope it convinces the hundreds of "I wanna do a track day but it's too intimidating and I'm not a good enough rider" people to realize what an incredible growth experience it is! I've seen Gold Wings, ST1300's and the like have the time of their life in the C sessions.
I've never run into a track official anywhere that wasn't willing to help with confidence building and good advice for the newbie.
Remember, humility is a strength! This is a perfect time for my favorite saying, "One man's ceiling is another man's floor".
Doyle

This is the best explaination right here...Right on Doyle. Especially the first sentence.

 

[macon454]

I think those are really good points Macon. Especially the issue re: correlation between faster class = more predictibility. If it were 20 years ago and I still wanted to do a Phd thesis, breaking all that down scientifically would be really interesting. Any veteran track riders "know" what is so but credibility soars when there is solid data to illustrate it. I would love to take 5 tracks and analyze cause of incidents, including rider personality. Anyways, my mission (especially now that I'm older) is to go faster AND increase safety at the same time.
I am NOT an authority but for 50 years I've been down twice (tarmac not dirt) and I attribute that record to knowing when to hold em and when to fold em.
Doyle

I agree on all, And especially on the go faster and increase safety and being smooth, My first few track days I was trying to go to fast and wasn't being as smooth as I could be and in turn went down a couple of times, now i am trying to be as smooth as possible first, and then worrying about the going fast part, because i already proved to myself i can turn fast lap times but was riding a little on (or maybe over) the edge doing it, And in return going down. So now I am just worried about being smooth and having fun, and the other will come. Hopefully

 

[raydog]

I agree on all, And especially on the go faster and increase safety and being smooth, My first few track days I was trying to go to fast and wasn't being as smooth as I could be and in turn went down a couple of times, now i am trying to be as smooth as possible first, and then worrying about the going fast part, because i already proved to myself i can turn fast lap times but was riding a little on (or maybe over) the edge doing it, And in return going down. So now I am just worried about being smooth and having fun, and the other will come. Hopefully

A world renowned road racer said the following to me some years ago, "To be as good as you can be, you must be a bird in flight, incredibly smooth and purposeful". I'm not telling who said it because name dropping immediately reduces the point being made. Anyways, it's scarry how much agreement is going on in this thread! Doyle

 

[fastblackblur]

Anyways, it's scarry how much agreement is going on in this thread! Doyle

It's because people are speaking from actual 1st hand expierience instead of what they read in magazine articles and internet forums.

Macon, if you always ride "A" group at your local track I think you would be surprised at how quickly you can adapt to a new track. I've noticed my times from track to track seem to correlate pretty evenly. Within 2 days I bet you'll be riding withing 95% of what you run at your home track.


Steven, I'd love to come out to Oregon with you but I'm having to do some crazy stuff just to make the AF day and race weekend happen. I'm having to fight the reality that I am an Air Force member 1st... Sadly this will probably mark the end of Gary's track season Been a great year though!

 

[raydog]

It's because people are speaking from actual 1st hand expierience instead of what they read in magazine articles and internet forums.

Macon, if you always ride "A" group at your local track I think you would be surprised at how quickly you can adapt to a new track. I've noticed my times from track to track seem to correlate pretty evenly. Within 2 days I bet you'll be riding withing 95% of what you run at your home track.


Steven, I'd love to come out to Oregon with you but I'm having to do some crazy stuff just to make the AF day and race weekend happen. I'm having to fight the reality that I am an Air Force member 1st... Sadly this will probably mark the end of Gary's track season Been a great year though!

Gary, it's said so much it gets worn out.....but......in any case.....thank you for serving. Doyle

 

[macon454]

It's because people are speaking from actual 1st hand expierience instead of what they read in magazine articles and internet forums.

Macon, if you always ride "A" group at your local track I think you would be surprised at how quickly you can adapt to a new track. I've noticed my times from track to track seem to correlate pretty evenly. Within 2 days I bet you'll be riding withing 95% of what you run at your home track.


Steven, I'd love to come out to Oregon with you but I'm having to do some crazy stuff just to make the AF day and race weekend happen. I'm having to fight the reality that I am an Air Force member 1st... Sadly this will probably mark the end of Gary's track season Been a great year though!

I sure hope i can come close to it, that is why i really want to go to some other tracks and see what it is like, I really want to go to Barber in Oct. bad, because i know it is an awesome track and would really like to see how much different it is and how fast a person could adapt to it. Because it is one of the best. Just gotta figure out how to ride more and work less, and still pay the bills.
And as Raydog said Thanks for the service.

 

[Bosshound]

I am still trying to Turn my Bird from a Turkey in Flight to a Falcon............Good Stuff Guys. You learn if you pay attention

 

[woodrrow]

STATE FARM UPDATE!

Called them again today to double check something. The policy states that, "Riding on any track or road course specifically designed for high speed riding, the policy will not cover any damages."

that sucks