From My Understanding and I maybe way off. The Busa is more highly modifiable than the kawi.... as I stated above I sat ON ALOT of bikes. And the Busa felt good in all aspects(weight distrabution, comfort, feel.) the Kawi 12 as well as 10 looked bulky felt bulky and all, and I just liked the look of the Busa Over all... Also liked the R1 too. But I was told by someone their is a transmission problem with the R1, not sure what year model of it. The 1K Suzuki is another choice of mine too. Also told that the 1K Suzuki is all that and more and can if Suzuki wated to refine it, prob here is why do it, and take from the FlagShip Bike(THE BUSA). Kinda wild huh.... as well as AWSOME...
Are we still the fastest?
- Thread starter NightCrawler
- Start date
1) Right ON!!!!In stock garb either of these two power-house bikes are but a $40 sprocket away from slightly out-performing each other but the difs are out there and they are...
1. Build-Ability...dollar for dollar, pony for pony..you can make bigger power cheaper and easier with the busa.
2. While the 12R enjoys a supposed slight edge in the Handling Dept.?....riders of equal skill will readily know who's feeling "at their best" on any given particular day.
3. Asthetics & Presence: The 12R has no differentiating character to it's fairing and styling lines and as such flaunts a rather simplistic "just another sportbike" type of appearance...while on the other hand?..The Mighty Busa almost demands it's bold presence be noticed with it's eyeball dominating windswept appearance leaving it's victims walking into doors and pylons at the local filling stations!!!
and finally?...
4. As far as Joe Public is concerned?...The Busa OWNS the title while the 12R merely "aspires to it"...as the proof is in the pricing and availability.
Does that help answer your question?
L8R, Bill.
2) Nothing a little tweeking and right Springs in the Suspension system would not take care of.
3) Liked the Busa's better.
4) True...
I like the Busa mostly because of #1 looks (got the 12 beat in sleek sexiness there!) and #2 seat height (can touch flat footed on the Busa, not on the 12) but honestly I never considered the 12 but for a second. And that was only because I sat on one at Fontana a few weeks ago. It seemed lower than the one a friend has. But I still like the feel and seating position and looks of the Busa. I never wanted a Busa for the 1300 factor....I know I will never use all that!
as for major upgrades.... try building a turbo 12r.
using its frame as ram air tubes and the airbox make it very expensive to do.
the comfort of the busa as a sportbike is untouchable in my opinion.
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using its frame as ram air tubes and the airbox make it very expensive to do.
the comfort of the busa as a sportbike is untouchable in my opinion.
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Mr Brown
Registered
Okay, obviously you don't get it. The Busa and 12 are so close in performance numbers that it comes down to personal opinion/preference. You can be as tired of the rider argument as you want, it happens to be the truth. If you've been to the dragstrip with your bike you know that 1/10th of a second is gained or lost very easily. If you rode the two bikes back to back, 3 times on each one, you'll get 6 different times. There is no way to remove the rider from the performance equation when the actual numbers are this close Your analogy of a 600 notwithstanding, rider is everything.I am not aware of any credible shoot-out where the 12 has ever beaten the Busa in anything. I get tired of hearing "the rider makes the difference". That could also be the case for a 600 vs the Busa but that is not the point. The actual numbers and performance are, and everytime when those are compared the Busa wins. So stop with the rider crap, that is not the question being asked.
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BigDawg_03Busa
Registered
Truth of the matter, if you always knew your bike was the 2nd fastiest in history (No prize for 2nd place) and your manhood is in question, wouldn't you feel you always have something to prove when you see a one eyed, pure unadulturated sexiness with the huge Kanji on it's lower fairings.
Personally I had friends that had and loved the busa, which was perfect because I got tired of hearing my 600 (at the time) scream bloody murder when I added a lil passenger
Personally I had friends that had and loved the busa, which was perfect because I got tired of hearing my 600 (at the time) scream bloody murder when I added a lil passenger
Mr Brown
Registered
Spigga, the point is that it's all personal opinion when the numbers are this close. There are some guys, usually the posers and bench racers who only bought a busa so they can brag about the "Fastest bike nonsense" all day. Then there are those who bought one because it best fit what we were looking for in a bike. The 12 falls short of knocking the champ out cold, but some would argue that it might win a decision. If you're coming to beat the champ, don't leave the decision to the judges. Knock him out cold in the first round. The 12 makes more peak hp and weighs less. they have run faster than busas during magazine tests, but busas have outrun 12's also. There is no definitive answer. that's where Kaw screwed up. Had the 12 been a 220mph monster from the factory, running a 9.5 1/4 and pushing 190hp, it would be the clear winner. As it stands the answer will be debated for ever.
Which bike is best is a totally subjective question. For example, if I lived in India, like Shenoyp, I would prolly think a dual-prpose BMW type bike would be the BEST for my purposes.(Unfinished gravel roads, etc..) He likes his Busa just fine, so it's BEST for him. The best bike for anyone is what suits them best, not what you or I think suits them best.
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I owned BOTH a zx12R and a Hayabusa. The zx12r was a 2004 model, so it had every current update available. My hayabusa is a 2005 model, so we all know what it is.
I bought the busa and sold the 12 because the busa sits lower, and I can get a backrest for my passengers whereas corbin doesnt make a backrest for the 12r.
Simple as that.
Now, after owning the busa for a while, I have come to appreciate or love certain things about it. I think the suzuki has better fairings and fasteners, and they fit together better. The exposed parts of the zx12 bothered me, and the busa looks slicker.
I think the busa hump is ugly as ####. So do most people that dont own a busa. But I dont have to ride with the hump. So it doesnt matter.
The busa is more stable than the 12 due to its factory supplied steering damper whereas the 12 has none. So the busa feels more planted.
The 12 handles better than the busa. period. BUT!! The busa feels better in long sweepers than the 12.
The busa is torqueier, yes, but the 12 gets more out of its engine than the busa. The 12 makes more hp, on 100 less cc's. If you add a pipe to both bikes, the 12 will gain more hp than the busa will.
However, the busa has better aeros and it will require less hp from its engine than the 12 does in order to reach the same top speed.
Yes, sorry to inform you, the 12 is just as fast as the busa. This is coming from a person who owned BOTH.
Shine Dennis ran both bikes for that magazine article a couple years ago, and managed to get a .04 better time on the busa than the 12 in the 1.4mile.
.04 = that means if you were counting to 100 in a second, you could only get to 4 before the 12 got there. Think about that.
Shine dennis is 5'4" tall. We all know that the busa sits lower and has a slipper clutch. The 12 is jacked way up high, and I remind you that is why I sold it!! - and its clutch is much much harder to launch.
Shine specifically made it clear he was uncomfortable on the 12...and very comfortable on the busa since it sits lower.
The difference between those bikes was .04 - 4 HUNDREDTHS of a second. That time happened to be in the 60-foot time measurements most likely, and that explains how close these bikes really are in performance. Put a taller guy on the busa with the same skills as SHine, and he may have beat that time. You just dont know for sure.
OVERALL I like the busa better, but its for a bunch of reasons, NONE of which is how fast it is...because I think in many cases the 12 is faster...but at the very least its equal. If you ran the 12 alongside the busa for a race of 3 miles, all out WOT - you would see the bikes change lead positions several times. With both being limited to 186, they would end up equal.
As for the top speed on a 12, Doug Meyer hit 199mph on radar on it with just a pipe change I believe, so whats the difference between them?
A couple of guys here are total suzuki busa loyalists, and it is obvious who they are. I owned a zx11, zx12r and now a busa, so you cant call me a brand loyalist. My opinion is based on experience with both machines and I think my assessment is fair.
The bikes are a dead heat, and it is the rider who makes the difference. You buy the busa for your own personal reasons, and a 12 for other reasons...but you dont buy one over the other for speed because they are both absolutely equal.
Magazines stopped testing them so long ago, that even a 99 busa will beat an 05 busa. So the most recent test showed a short guy who struggled on a 12's high seat height - damn near scored the same time on the busa which is clearly easier to launch because of its clutch and its seat lower.
Enjoy your busa for its looks, if you like them. Enjoy your busa for its stability and fit and finish. Enjoy your busa cause its fast and comfy!!! But dont buy a busa because you want the fastest bike hands down. 'Cause there isn't a hands down winner anymore.
I bought the busa and sold the 12 because the busa sits lower, and I can get a backrest for my passengers whereas corbin doesnt make a backrest for the 12r.
Simple as that.
Now, after owning the busa for a while, I have come to appreciate or love certain things about it. I think the suzuki has better fairings and fasteners, and they fit together better. The exposed parts of the zx12 bothered me, and the busa looks slicker.
I think the busa hump is ugly as ####. So do most people that dont own a busa. But I dont have to ride with the hump. So it doesnt matter.
The busa is more stable than the 12 due to its factory supplied steering damper whereas the 12 has none. So the busa feels more planted.
The 12 handles better than the busa. period. BUT!! The busa feels better in long sweepers than the 12.
The busa is torqueier, yes, but the 12 gets more out of its engine than the busa. The 12 makes more hp, on 100 less cc's. If you add a pipe to both bikes, the 12 will gain more hp than the busa will.
However, the busa has better aeros and it will require less hp from its engine than the 12 does in order to reach the same top speed.
Yes, sorry to inform you, the 12 is just as fast as the busa. This is coming from a person who owned BOTH.
Shine Dennis ran both bikes for that magazine article a couple years ago, and managed to get a .04 better time on the busa than the 12 in the 1.4mile.
.04 = that means if you were counting to 100 in a second, you could only get to 4 before the 12 got there. Think about that.
Shine dennis is 5'4" tall. We all know that the busa sits lower and has a slipper clutch. The 12 is jacked way up high, and I remind you that is why I sold it!! - and its clutch is much much harder to launch.
Shine specifically made it clear he was uncomfortable on the 12...and very comfortable on the busa since it sits lower.
The difference between those bikes was .04 - 4 HUNDREDTHS of a second. That time happened to be in the 60-foot time measurements most likely, and that explains how close these bikes really are in performance. Put a taller guy on the busa with the same skills as SHine, and he may have beat that time. You just dont know for sure.
OVERALL I like the busa better, but its for a bunch of reasons, NONE of which is how fast it is...because I think in many cases the 12 is faster...but at the very least its equal. If you ran the 12 alongside the busa for a race of 3 miles, all out WOT - you would see the bikes change lead positions several times. With both being limited to 186, they would end up equal.
As for the top speed on a 12, Doug Meyer hit 199mph on radar on it with just a pipe change I believe, so whats the difference between them?
A couple of guys here are total suzuki busa loyalists, and it is obvious who they are. I owned a zx11, zx12r and now a busa, so you cant call me a brand loyalist. My opinion is based on experience with both machines and I think my assessment is fair.
The bikes are a dead heat, and it is the rider who makes the difference. You buy the busa for your own personal reasons, and a 12 for other reasons...but you dont buy one over the other for speed because they are both absolutely equal.
Magazines stopped testing them so long ago, that even a 99 busa will beat an 05 busa. So the most recent test showed a short guy who struggled on a 12's high seat height - damn near scored the same time on the busa which is clearly easier to launch because of its clutch and its seat lower.
Enjoy your busa for its looks, if you like them. Enjoy your busa for its stability and fit and finish. Enjoy your busa cause its fast and comfy!!! But dont buy a busa because you want the fastest bike hands down. 'Cause there isn't a hands down winner anymore.
I own a Busa to me the best bike in the world, read lots of stuff on other sites with guys saying the 12r is the best, Its your preference I'm riding my Busa ITS MINE NOONE ELSES, I have always felt the Busa was made for me LOOKS, FEEL the Whole Package, 12 riders feel the same, Enjoy your ride But Ride thats all that matters Everyone that ask me whats the fastest bike I tell them there's 4 that are real close Busa,12r,gixxer1k5,zx10r with a bunch getting closer even Harley guys think theirs are the best albeit not the fastest, I guess what I'm trying to say is I bought the bike for me, not what some magazine or other rider said.
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yes, Spigga, we are still the fastest.
You don't see many (or any at all) 12 or 10R's competing in land speed records now, do ya?
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You don't see many (or any at all) 12 or 10R's competing in land speed records now, do ya?
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Would that be because the zx-11 holds the land speed record?yes, Spigga, we are still the fastest.
You don't see many (or any at all) 12 or 10R's competing in land speed records now, do ya?
http://www.mrturbo.com/news/bonneville.html
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Absofrigginlutely, my thoughts exactly -- +1 for HayaVegas.
7th Gear
Registered
The busa is more stable than the 12 due to its factory supplied steering damper whereas the 12 has none. So the busa feels more planted.
[/QUOTE]
I never knew that. I assumed that if they made a bike with that much power they would AT LEAST put a steering damper on the bloody thing...
I can't honestly say I've driven a 12 or even sat on one, but as far as numbers are concerned they ARE pretty close. They are both the big dogs of the sportbike industry. I think it all comes down to rider preference really. They are both great bikes.
[/QUOTE]
I never knew that. I assumed that if they made a bike with that much power they would AT LEAST put a steering damper on the bloody thing...
I can't honestly say I've driven a 12 or even sat on one, but as far as numbers are concerned they ARE pretty close. They are both the big dogs of the sportbike industry. I think it all comes down to rider preference really. They are both great bikes.
does that even <span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>remotely</span> look like a motorcycle? WTF....Would that be because the zx-11 holds the land speed record?yes, Spigga, we are still the fastest.
You don't see many (or any at all) 12 or 10R's competing in land speed records now, do ya?
http://www.mrturbo.com/news/bonneville.html
anything goes in streamliners....why not mention the 550 streamliner ground jet? That wasn't a fuggin kawasaki...nor a suzuki. Jesus christ....
Spigga is talking about production motorcycles...not some fuggin streamliner. In case you didn't take time to read the above before mouthing off again, that means "OPEN-WHEELED" production motorcycles.
Pulled off from waynepollackracing.com:
The TOP TEN FASTEST open-wheel MOTORCYCLE RIDERS of all time,on any open-wheel motorcycle, and at any land-speed racing track, with an "official" speed as of 05/01/05. These speeds are from the Bonneville 1/4 mile, full mile
and exit speed listings (when available). Maxton speeds include entrance and exit speeds, where available, and the single speeds of Texas, El Mirage and Muroc.
1 WAYNE POLLACK 258.131 MPH MAXTON 2005 HAYABUSA X
2 LEE SHIERTS 256.439 MPH MAXTON 2004 HAYABUSA E
3 JON MINONNO 256.264 MPH BONNEVILLE 1992 TRIUMPH X
4 JOHN NOONAN 253.152 MPH BONNEVILLE 2004 HAYABUSA M
5 STEVE KNECUM 251.600 MPH BONNEVILLE 2003 HAYABUSA M
6 SCOTT GUTHRIE 251.148 MPH TEXAS 2004 HAYABUSA R*
7 DENNIS CLANTON 245.430 MPH BONNEVILLE 2003 HAYABUSA M
8 JOE AMO 244.449 MPH BONNEVILLE 2004 KAW ZX10 M
9 RICH YANCY 244.358 MPH TEXAS 2004 HAYABUSA R*
10 DAN KINSEY 239.492 MPH BONNEVILLE 1991 HARLEY M
ROFL...you said land speed record(s).does that even <span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>remotely</span> look like a motorcycle? WTF....Would that be because the zx-11 holds the land speed record?yes, Spigga, we are still the fastest.
You don't see many (or any at all) 12 or 10R's competing in land speed records now, do ya?
http://www.mrturbo.com/news/bonneville.html
anything goes in streamliners....why not mention the 550 streamliner ground jet? That wasn't a fuggin kawasaki...nor a suzuki. Jesus christ....
Spigga is talking about production motorcycles...not some fuggin streamliner. In case you didn't take time to read the above before mouthing off again, that means "OPEN-WHEELED" production motorcycles.
Pulled off from waynepollackracing.com:
The TOP TEN FASTEST open-wheel MOTORCYCLE RIDERS of all time,on any open-wheel motorcycle, and at any land-speed racing track, with an "official" speed as of 05/01/05. These speeds are from the Bonneville 1/4 mile, full mile
and exit speed listings (when available). Maxton speeds include entrance and exit speeds, where available, and the single speeds of Texas, El Mirage and Muroc.
1 WAYNE POLLACK 258.131 MPH MAXTON 2005 HAYABUSA X
2 LEE SHIERTS 256.439 MPH MAXTON 2004 HAYABUSA E
3 JON MINONNO 256.264 MPH BONNEVILLE 1992 TRIUMPH X
4 JOHN NOONAN 253.152 MPH BONNEVILLE 2004 HAYABUSA M
5 STEVE KNECUM 251.600 MPH BONNEVILLE 2003 HAYABUSA M
6 SCOTT GUTHRIE 251.148 MPH TEXAS 2004 HAYABUSA R*
7 DENNIS CLANTON 245.430 MPH BONNEVILLE 2003 HAYABUSA M
8 JOE AMO 244.449 MPH BONNEVILLE 2004 KAW ZX10 M
9 RICH YANCY 244.358 MPH TEXAS 2004 HAYABUSA R*
10 DAN KINSEY 239.492 MPH BONNEVILLE 1991 HARLEY M
- and who the #### cares?!! I was being funny, pointing out the ridiculous lengths to which this crock of #### debating can go.
Besides, thanks to your little research reference, I see a zx-10r at number 8. So much for knowing it all, huh pacbus?
Spigga was asking if lately (since after '02)- any rags quoted the zx12 as faster than the busa in more likely than not STOCK form, since thats how the magazines test them.
He wasnt asking about modded out racers dragging on the circuit.
Dont tell me you are also one of those guys who doesnt want to accept that the zx12r is just as fast as the hayabusa...
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Pick up the latest issue (June 2005) of Performance Bikes. The Fastest Bikes on Earth - 14 Bike Special Settles It. It was a test track with a 2 mile straight. The Busa fininshed in 8th place and the 12r finished 2nd. 12r -1 Busa - 999,999.
As I remember, Ricky Gadson ran both bike in stock form, and modified (lowered and strapped). And yes, the Busa ran better times and he felt more comfortable on the Busa.
As I remember, Ricky Gadson ran both bike in stock form, and modified (lowered and strapped). And yes, the Busa ran better times and he felt more comfortable on the Busa.
Once again, do me a favor and read, huh? What did my original post say?
"Not too many 12 or 10r's in land speed record attempts...."
There was in no conceiveable way I was stating that I knew it all, was there? You need to read a lil bit more, HV....and think before spewing.
That the 12R is just as fast as the Hayabusa I can accept...if the figures are there to back it up. I have yet to see the 12 get the Busa in top speed; pure and simple, the aeros of the 12 work against it. I'm not a die-hard "The Hayabusa is the king and nothing comes close" fanatic...being one would simply mean that I'm closed-minded. I am aware that the two are VERY close...but the 12 just has too much working against it at higher speeds. If there wasn't, then why is it that Lee Shierts and Noonan don't ride 12's to acheive the Open-Class record? Better yet, why is it that in the rags the 12 consistently falls short in top speed although it has more HP output?
Again, it comes down to aeros. Take the time to read the link...
Aerodynamics - Hayabusa vs. ZX12
To further save you the trouble of reading (since it appears that you have a tendency not to) let me pull something directly from the article:
A lower figure means less drag, and the Hayabusa recorded a CDA of 3.37 ft2 (0.313 m2),
about 8 percent less than the ZX-12R's figure of 3.67 ft2 (0.341 m2).
Again, it doesn't matter what kinda speed we're talking....drag is drag. One bike has more than the other. The result? One will be slower....unless there is a gross mismatch in power output, which there is none of between the Busa and the 12.
Is there anywhere in this post where I proclaimed to know it all? Hmm....let me see.
Nope.
Take some time to gather your thoughts to produce a serious rebuttal...you don't gain much by doing otherwise.
On another note, I will agree with you one one thing; the debate is getting old, tired and laughable.
this is interesting, soon2be...although I am somewhat curious as to it's credibility.
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