Brake and brakeline question gentlemen

The front wheel is just along for the ride. It has no force being applied to it,so it is not twisting (right hand rule).

Recall physics class? Sitting on a freely rotating stool holding a bicycle wheel? That wheel is free-wheeling but the right-hand rule is used to predict motion (or lack of motion). The constant drive force you allude to is not required, merely a rotation is. :p

Also, the motorcycle wheel in fact is being twisted on its axis perpetually by the force of friction from the road. :p

Aha. While eating anchovies with lunch I had a premonition: Turbulence created by the wheel's direction cools the left side more than the right. (Occam's razor.)

They are better for all riders,and especially pro riders because the "feel" of the lever is more precise and predictable.

I have seen both, completely opposing opinions here: succinctly different feel and no different feel whatsoever. Someday with a brake line changeover, I suppose I will have to decide for myself.
 
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Recall physics class? Sitting on a freely rotating stool holding a bicycle wheel? That wheel is free-wheeling but the right-hand rule is used to predict motion (or lack of motion). The constant drive force you allude to is not required, merely a rotation is. :p
For sure,just about every object on the planet experiences some sort of energy,but in this scenario,what does it matter? The whole wheel is rotating mass,but both rotors spin at the same rate. If one rotor has more braking force applied to it than the other rotor,the rider is not going to feel it. Both rotors are attached to the same wheel. If one caliper fails completely,lets say the left...on full braking the bike wont be thrown down or even move noticeably different to the right. Bikes with say only a right side front brake,dont pull to the right upon braking. A car with one failed brake can be felt,the componants do not share the same wheel(rotating mass).
Also, the motorcycle wheel in fact is being twisted on its axis perpetually by the force of friction from the road. :p
Yes,the force of the friction between road and tire is there,the tire is being driven by force,but the force is constant. Unlike the rear wheel which is being driven by a motor. The front "free-wheels" the rear is being driven. Ex: If you crack the throttle,you can spin the rear,the speed of the front wheel remains the same as the bike.
We cannot feel the effects yes because the whole assembly is stationary. However, Frank's observation, both the wear differences and temperature variations that create them, are the measurement of whatever the cause is, whether the torque forces that I theorize or the actual, correct cause LOL.
Take a Busa with OEM rubber lines. Hydraulic force travels down the hose to the first caliper as the hose expands,a certain amount of force is applied to the first rotor,then the second caliper receives less force because the hose is longer and expands a second time.I believe thou that the difference in pressure is miniscule,probably close to unmeasureable.
A good way to illustrate and test my theory would be to set up 1 hydraulic pump with 3 hoses attached to it,all of the same material.1 line a foot long,the 2nd 2 feet,the 3rd 3 feet long. What would the percentage of force difference be? next to nothing is my guess.
I have seen both, completely opposing opinions here: succinctly different feel and no different feel whatsoever. Someday with a brake line changeover, I suppose I will have to decide for myself.

It will be evident immediately before you even test ride it. The brake lever will have lost some of its "squish" or "mushy" feeling,will have far less travel and will actually brake FASTER. The time and distance travelled from say 100MPH-0 will be huge.
@Berlin Germany do you see differences in wear on completely different bike models I presume? Otherwise we could chalk it up to a geometry problem, right?
its not geometree,thats the study of rectumtangles an' such...this is physics. :laugh: Actually in this case it's the study of many things foremost being hydrodynamics.
Have a good day HW...
Rubb.
 
and @rubbersidedown

your understanding of the physic and its laws is 100% correct.

and yes again - the "softer" the sheathing of the lines is the more pressure you loose from master til down to the calippers and the more spongy / inaccurate the feeling becomes.

but the real life and my experiances with the tokico calippers at the gen1 (no matter if "dirty or max deep cleaned)
show me every time (repl. pads) the opposite
that the pad thicknesses between lh and rh defintively at these gen1 tokico calippers differ - viewable by eye the older they are / the more milage they got.

and yes it matters what sheathing the lines have.
with original rubber lines more than with steel braided / kevlar braided
but with both at its end - with cross over line - the same result. (in damn opposite to physic)

how this behavior differs beween gen1 and actual gen2 calippers i can´t say - havn´t had yet the exp. with these gen2 radials.
 
While eating anchovies with lunch I had a premonition: Turbulence created by the wheel's direction cools the left side more than the right. (Occam's razor.)

but with both at its end - with cross over line - the same result. (in damn opposite to physic)

how this behavior differs beween gen1 and actual gen2 calippers i can´t say - havn´t had yet the exp. with these gen2 radials.

@Berlin Germany did you ever measure the airflow or temperatures on each side? Temperature variation would also exaggerate the effect from the weaker line material, as you observed.
 
Actually a correction came to me while cooking omelettes. I did not mean temperature but pressure. A barometer would be needed on both sides of the wheel. As you said temperature is constant. But in cooking, cook time varies significantly (minutes) at the identical temperature but between days of high and low atmospheric pressure. Given that the wheel is symmetric, I actually figure the pressure on both sides is equal. But when looking for an unknown, this is what we do, ask dumb questions.
 
@Hayabusa Wannabe

grin - pressure.
do you have any idea how many "bar" (1 bar ~ 14.5 psi) we speek about in the calipper when the lever is fully pulled?

it is a very lot of bar acting in the pumps
tangential 5/8" piston ~ 31 bar
radial 16mm piston / leverage 18 mm ~ 41 bar

and these pressures go down to te calipers.

see my excel sheet i built to calculte what difference a radial pump occurs compared to the standard tangential pump e.g. used at the busa.
sorry it is in german but the formulas are i guess (and hope) international
so i hope you can understand a bit ;)

piston engl. = "kolben" german
 
No I am talking air pressure around the system, air flow that cools the brakes. Can it possibly differ from left to right?

no, i guess

they are so close together - i would say no more tha 25 centi meters / ~ 10 inches

and why should they?
the pads are from same material, the discs too - so how??

it is damn crazy and i have no damn clue why the pads thickness so often differ from lh to rh when the cal. are connected over the fender
but i have to recognize this damn fact as often as i have to replace the pads when "cross over" connected.
and if long lined by 2 lines from master this effect never is viewable - both sides lost similar thickness.
if not, one side of the calippers may don´t work as easy as they should especially when they are deep cleaned or not.

AND AGAIN - ALL THIS IS AT VERY 1st A GEN1 / TOKICO ISSUE !

lets stop this discussion it won´t lead to and sensefull end - my exp. by other discussions about this issue.
 
No I am talking air pressure around the system, air flow that cools the brakes. Can it possibly differ from left to right?
For sure.I do think its miniscule thou.Probably not even measurable. This scientific question has so many parts to it and as far as right vs left there are variables.This Gen I Tokico thing,it must have something to do with the fact that one caliper is primary,the other secondary,for want of a better term. But dammit HW...I want answers...
cursin.gif

:laugh:
Rubb.
 
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