Brakes, Oil and valves clearance check

[Sandow]

@Sandow

i´m tired of this theme like a monk in tibet turning the "praying rolls".

sorry but send your "friend" back to school, if he told you the values at the sheet were fine.

in german
früher hätte man gesagt "dieser freund solle besser sein lehrgeld zurück geben"

clearances at 0.10 at in - are the abs. minimum
the gen1 manual says their max is at 0.20 and that i would strongly recommend for gen1 busa´s engine

same nonsense are the gen1 val´s at your ex - their´s is minimum 0,20 / max 0.30

if you had been with that in my shop, i had change all 16 shims - for 100% real

at a clearance lower than middle (25/100 (ex) or 15/100 (in)) the shims all have to be replaced that the resulting clearance will become as close to max as possible
AND
for best smooth engine running
both valve clearances of one cylinder should be as near/close to the other as possible
max diff 2/100 (in or ex - same max)

please allways use the "feeler gauge " with steps of 1/100 ! (4/100, 5/100 .. 11/100 .. 23/100 .. 30/100) to get the clearances correctly - steps of 5/100 are not exact enough !

uuuuh yes another thing

in the german haya board we had one "super mech" who really tried to explain us
that he can hear the valves clattering when clearance is at max - what a big big bullshit ´n nonsense.

the absolute principle is here :
the clearance (max is best) of the valves has to compensate their linear (length) expansion when getting hot
and the less this clearance is, the bigger the risk that the valve and its seat can burn (away)

sorry to all those i'm stepping on their feet now
who ever tells that a clearance - at gen1 - of less than 24/100 /ex) or 15/100 (in) is still absolutely okay is telling sheer nonsense ! basta.

as a reminder - the values of the gen2 are 18-28/100 and 8-18/100 mm
- damn what a huge difference to gen1 - har har har / l m a o / r o f l

I would suggest you slow down here a little bit grashoppa!

First of all it is a GEN 2. The specs are WAY different. You jump to conclusions way to frequent in my opinion. Not only here- also in the german busa board and you got into deep s*hit many times with several members there.
Calling a mechanic out he should go back to school - Even tho you dont even refer to the right bike is just unecessary.
All my numbers are in the range and FINE.

And yes - we used the proper feeler gauge. He is a professional- what did you think we used? A ruler???

The numbers I wrote down are rounded up or down just for my records and I thought I would share it with the board.
If I have to "defend" myself to people who put a lot of "halbwissen"(since you love the german language so much!) out in the world - I will keep it from now on to myself!

And another word of advice - Just because you write book long answers does NOT make you smarter than the rest here!

 

[SSGT_B]

 

[Kiwi Rider]

I would suggest you slow down here a little bit grashoppa!

First of all it is a GEN 2. The specs are WAY different. You jump to conclusions way to frequent in my opinion. Not only here- also in the german busa board and you got into deep s*hit many times with several members there.
Calling a mechanic out he should go back to school - Even tho you dont even refer to the right bike is just unecessary.
All my numbers are in the range and FINE.

And yes - we used the proper feeler gauge. He is a professional- what did you think we used? A ruler???

The numbers I wrote down are rounded up or down just for my records and I thought I would share it with the board.
If I have to "defend" myself to people who put a lot of "halbwissen"(since you love the german language so much!) out in the world - I will keep it from now on to myself!

And another word of advice - Just because you write book long answers does NOT make you smarter than the rest here!

. . . .

 

[c10]

Ruler so well said my friend . Daniel is he the German version of old ali123 ??

 

[Kiwi Rider]

Ruler so well said my friend . Daniel is he the German version of old ali123 ??

Different flavour
I think Ali was more of an antagonist, Berlin is trying to be helpful . . .

 

[Berlin Germany]

@Sandow

dear german friend

in canada - first of all! - i don´t wanna have stress with you.

i only reacted to the values at your paper - and those clearances were simply too close / little. see manual for that.

and yes - some themes need more than 10 words or so - i beg your very pardon for my "thesises".

and yes again - by 40 years of experience and dozens of "discussions and debates" with standard and race mechanics i definitely got smarter than probably some others.

no one can tell me, that he can hear a valve clattering at a "busa like dohc motor" - that is a nonsense.
and - all busa i had in my workshop to control the valves gap, mostly had smaller clearances than the max according to manual say.
some of them were lower than half - i changed those (and all others too because the cams were already out) to their max (+/- 1-2/100) and ALL owners (till today) were absolutely happy with the more smooth motor running.

by the way
the one, who massively attacked me in the german forum and wrote about the rattling / clattering of the valves, was directly involved in adjusting the valves of his own busa in 2012 (milage approx. 22000 km),
he was right next to the bench and looked at my doing / "on the fingers".

When I asked him -
lateron he declared he was a qualified automotive mechanic with exam ! -
whether I should adjust the valves as I had "learned" (best to max), he just said to me, ("quote") "do as you mean - it is too difficult for me and i have no idea".
I did that and he was - at that time - absolutely satisfied with my work.

I can prove these values that I "found" and the values that I then set to a maximum of 1-2 / 100 difference per cylinder - as a pic (.jpg) of my Excel table.
do you want to see this table?
fine - here it is in the appendix - without names or other references to the owner of this busa. only milage and date.

And that's exactly how I continue to think about all valves - at least with the busa engines and nobody else speaks / writes about clattering valves.

by the way
if only one "valve´s gap" is smaller than half i replace all shims to max gap.
both cams have to be put out and why shouldn`t i replace all at that same time?
by this the owner can be calmed (can rest assured) for the next 30000km till the next messuring of valve gaps.

the prize for one shim here in berlin is 3.00 € or so - so what if i replace 16 of em at same time ???

short translation for non germans :
gemessenes Spiel - messured clearance
einliegendes Maß - shims thickness
zu ersetzen durch - to be replaced by ...

eingelegtes Maß - new shim´s thickness
resultierendes Spiel - new resulting clearance

 

[Midge0z]

143,000kms and all within factory spec.

That’s your Valve Clearances you’re saying ok at 143,000 Ks ?

 

[Midge0z]

Man I just haven't grown the balls to do engine stuff. I change my oil and leave the rest to my shop. It's deceptively complicated and the risk is expensive repairs. I admire your sense of adventure @Sandow !

I feel somewhat the same but will do my 24000k device myself as Pensioner and don’t have the bread. Based on what I’ve learned here I’m going to skip valve clearance inspection and do that at 48,000k

 

[Dai.]

That’s your Valve Clearances you’re saying ok at 143,000 Ks ?

Yep, gets checked at every major service. Replaced the cam chain at 125,000kms for peace of mind.

 

[Boosted Cycle Perf]

@Sandow

i´m tired of this theme like a monk in tibet turning the "praying rolls".

sorry but send your "friend" back to school, if he told you the values at the sheet were fine.

in german
früher hätte man gesagt "dieser freund solle besser sein lehrgeld zurück geben"

clearances at 0.10 at in - are the abs. minimum
the gen1 manual says their max is at 0.20 and that i would strongly recommend for gen1 busa´s engine

same nonsense are the gen1 val´s at your ex - their´s is minimum 0,20 / max 0.30

if you had been with that in my shop, i had change all 16 shims - for 100% real

at a clearance lower than middle (25/100 (ex) or 15/100 (in)) the shims all have to be replaced that the resulting clearance will become as close to max as possible
AND
for best smooth engine running
both valve clearances of one cylinder should be as near/close to the other as possible
max diff 2/100 (in or ex - same max)

please allways use the "feeler gauge " with steps of 1/100 ! (4/100, 5/100 .. 11/100 .. 23/100 .. 30/100) to get the clearances correctly - steps of 5/100 are not exact enough !

uuuuh yes another thing

in the german haya board we had one "super mech" who really tried to explain us
that he can hear the valves clattering when clearance is at max - what a big big bullshit ´n nonsense.

the absolute principle is here :
the clearance (max is best) of the valves has to compensate their linear (length) expansion when getting hot
and the less this clearance is, the bigger the risk that the valve and its seat can burn (away)

sorry to all those i'm stepping on their feet now
who ever tells that a clearance - at gen1 - of less than 24/100 /ex) or 15/100 (in) is still absolutely okay is telling sheer nonsense ! basta.

as a reminder - the values of the gen2 are 18-28/100 and 8-18/100 mm
- damn what a huge difference to gen1 - har har har / l m a o / r o f l

Off of what sound evidence have you built all these theories on? The only thing I agree with that you said is keep the clearance within .02 on each cylinder.

As far as the clearance differences between gen 1 and 2, remember the gen 2 has titanium valves vs the gen 1s stainless. Stainless has a greater linear expansion rate then titanium, therefor the spec has to be looser.

I certainly can listen to these engines and can tell if valve lash is within spec. I’ve picked up on valves being too lose, tight, broken retainers, missing keepers. I couldn’t identify exactly what the problems were, but I heard something off that lead me to investigate. Just the same as my dad and grandfather use to be able to set the distributor, and carb on small block chevys just by feel and sound. When you’re in tune with a machine, you hear every minute change. Just because you can’t do it, doesn’t mean someone else can’t.

In my opinion, where you set the valve lash is directly in relation to application. On nearly stock/bolt on bike like the one in shown here, I would definitely loosen up that .18 on the exhaust side. It’s not within spec. That spec was determined by a group of engineers way smarter then most of us. And on a bike that’s going to see many more miles going down the road, that leaves room for the valve train to wear, and still be within spec.

Purposely setting clearance to max on a street bike is setting it up for troubles down the road. As it wears, it will move out of spec. It also can increase wear as the cam lobe starts to smack the bucket higher up on the ramp of the lobe. Objects in motion stay in motion right? So when the valve closes and the cam lobe is away from the bucket, the bucket has more room to keep traveling up. This gives the shim an opportunity to move and jam itself sideways on top of the valve stem. if turned enough it will pop out a retainer.

On sub 500hp turbo bikes I don’t even run valves at max. When setting up an engine I make adjustments for its intended use, max HP, and fuel type. And I can think of maybe 3 times I’ve ever set the head up that lose.

 

[Mythos]

A friend of mine came by who happens to work at the local Suzuki shop and he showed me how to check the valve clearance.
Learned something new. The bird has 25 000 km on the clock and all is within the limits.

That's good practice for when the time comes that you do need to adjust some. I needed to adjust all exhaust valves on my 14. Being absolutely positive the engine remained in time with the valves was necessary. Keeping the timing chain on the crankshaft, marking it to the cam sprockets and finally removing and then installing the camshafts was something I had to do with great care. It was quite a relief to hear the bike start up and run without blowing up! I adjusted my valves to minimum clearance hoping to reduce mechanical engine noise. It sounded the same and it ran the same before and after the adjustment but at least I know it was taken care of. The valve clearance was the same as I had set it 12,000 miles later. I hear they don't change much after they have worn in.