Buell dead and Harley on the brink!

[ks-waterbug]

Motorcycles are way to subjective to label em by only one criteria... In this case your own, but I understand how some folks can't stand em and others love em! As to Harley being underpowered for the $$$ I have to disagree. Plenty of power for what I expected from my V-twin. Didn't buy one to go fast nor do I have any plans on making it go that way. As said above got two Busa's if I feel the need for speed. A quick reminder that some would say "Why" did you buy a Busa? Especially if your going to hit the twisties with it! Didn't stop me from buying or riding the twisties... Instead I've focused on the things that make me happy with the bikes I have selected. HD just happens to fill my stable quite well..

Also, have to agree with the assessment concerning the economy. Going to get pretty rough on a lot of the bike manufactures and dealers I'm sure over the next year or two... Hate to see any go, but suspect it will happen. Look at the price of a new bike and it makes you cringe...

 

[Schism]

not good news at all. as much as i don't care for harley's, i don't want to see another amercian company go belly up.

 

[Liltroy]

Right. Suzuki isn't far off themselves.

Suzuki's not in trouble bro....they just arent selling in USA, thats why they're not bringing in any 2010's yet, but they're still doing just fine with the bike sales everywhere else in the world. No motorcycle company is selling very well in the US right now. The problem with Harley Davidson is that they dont really have the rest of the world to turn to like the other manufacturers do. Everyone else in the world looks at them the same way they look at American cars........like they're junk! They only sell in America because they're American. I mean honestly...They're underpowered, overpriced, and underdeveloped compared to all the competition out there. My whole family rides HD with the exception of myself and as proof that Harleys arent bought for "quality"...you can ask any Harley rider why they bought a Harley and you almost always get the same answer..."Cause its a Harley!"

 

[blusmbl]

not good news at all. as much as i don't care for harley's, i don't want to see another amercian company go belly up.

Thank you. Say what you will about them, but they are an American icon, and it would be a shame if they went under.

 

[Haya01B]

Harley did do it to themselves, they are too greedy.
Their greed allows the other V-twin makers (Victory and the Metrics)
to get a foothold and take a market share.

1-Their bikes are overpriced. They dropped the prices recently at the drop of
a hat in spite of the declining value of the dollar. A couple years ago I
remember the fat boy being around 18-19000 grand...now it's 15,999.
(and they are still making money off it)

2-They are underpowered, especially for the price. And this is based on greed.
They would rather charge you a premium price for a pea shooter motor
and then ask you to pay thousands more for their "screaming eagle" () package.
Why oh why don't they just make the 110cu motor standard. Obviously
they want you to pay again for decent motor. Which the screaming eagle
kit only brings you to 103cu. Even with the 110 you wont win any races
but at least you can run with the big boys.

The motor thing just kills me, Victories are expensive as well but at least
you get a premium jam up motor to begin with. Yeah some models have a
100cc and some have the 106cc but they are both strong motors and I really
don't feel much of a difference. Then you get on a Harley and it's like anemic
especially when you get off a Raider or a M109.

Just remember the 96cu is an "upgrade" from the 88cu. Talk about a boat...

Note to harley, put the best motor in you have as standard. You'd sell a lot more
bikes. If all harley came with the 110 you'd more than likely put Victory out
of business and the metrics would really struggle.

Preach Brotha Preach!

Harley has always over priced their products. Always!

 

[Cookie]

There's a rumour floating around that VW Group is looking to buy majority ownership in Suzuki Motors. I'm assuming that would include both the automotive arm as well as the motorcycle division.

Volkswagen looking to take stake in Suzuki by year's end? — Autoblog

That'd be cool, my 911 and Hayabusa would become cousins!

That would a cool thing. Right on, Brother! I know exactly how you feel.

 

[trekfuel]

An interesting read.

What's a 50% tarrif on a new Hayabusa? About $6k.

I do think HD is in better shape today from a product and export network perspective than they were thirty five years ago. I hope they're able to survive the current market conditions.

wow.... another thing for canadians to smuggle in to the usa....

 

[dragonbusa]

sad thing is a girl i know who rides a ninja 250 still passed 2 guys on thier screaming eagles at about 107 mph....ninja 250 is 26 hp
now all this happend after the r6 the gsxr 750 and my hayabusa passed them as well, but we where all 1/8 mile or better up the road when the ninja 250 caught up to them and passed..they where riding those hd's as hard as they could..shaking and swerving justtrying to stay above 100mph...was the funniestthing i ever saw...

107mph on a 250? bull $hit!

 

[dragonbusa]

My buddys got an o9 super glide, $17000+ and it wont keep up with my 05 vtx1300. $8500, with five year unlimted mile warrenty 52000 mls on the X and the only fix has been a brake light switch. honda fixed it no problem. super glides been back to shop five times with eletrical problems. My next cruzzers going to be the new kawi 1700 vucan voyager. $5000 cheaper than the HD ultra, 109ft lbs of torque and loaded with ever thing you could ever want on a cruzzer. HD zigged when they should have zagged

 

[Bird Hunter]

I'm glad so many americans are happy another American Co. is in trouble, that's news we should all be thankful for !! :cookoo:

 

[Haya01B]

I'm glad so many americans are happy another American Co. is in trouble, that's news we should all be thankful for !! :cookoo:

Well why do these American companies charge more for their products when competition can ship them here with better quality for cheaper prices. Greeeeeedddddddd! It was just a matter of time! Products getting more and more expensive to the point people could not buy with cash anymore and then credit cards get maxed and loans are starting to be made and then it really goes over head. Now you have what you have now. I enjoy going to the shops that price their products well over reasonable value and watch them choke off their own greed. Just like the guy that showed me a $11k swingarm for the hayabusa and he looks at me with a straight face and his best sales pitch is "you can leave the club with a lot of split tail with this on your bike" I said "yeah! after you split my tail huh!"

It is bad business practices of that sort that will break a company down. So yeah that is one business I am glad to see in a struggle.

 

[Bird Hunter]

Well why do these American companies charge more for their products when competition can ship them here with better quality for cheaper prices. Greeeeeedddddddd! It was just a matter of time! Products getting more and more expensive to the point people could not buy with cash anymore and then credit cards get maxed and loans are starting to be made and then it really goes over head. Now you have what you have now. I enjoy going to the shops that price their products well over reasonable value and watch them choke off their own greed. Just like the guy that showed me a $11k swingarm for the hayabusa and he looks at me with a straight face and his best sales pitch is "you can leave the club with a lot of split tail with this on your bike" I said "yeah! after you split my tail huh!"

It is bad business practices of that sort that will break a company down. So yeah that is one business I am glad to see in a struggle.

I hear your argument, and I agree with some of the points you make, but at the same time we are competing with people living a third world lifestyle, making next to nothing.. The only ones doing well are the company owners and top execs.. I don't mind paying more for american products knowing that we are not only supporting our country, keeping our people employed with good jobs, and preserving our way of life.. If we want to compete with a second or third world, well, I'm pretty sure we will have to live that way too... I'm not saying we can't trim some fat, but that would also involve lowering taxes, workers comp, etc, to help ease the burden placed on american co.'s compared to the foreign competition..

 

[Bird Hunter]

As far as the better quality for cheaper prices... That may be true on some things, but not for others.. I find american products of better quality compared to foreign products on a fairly regular basis, as I always compare when I shop.. I also know that alot of foreign items are made using extremely cheap labor and provide zero benefits for employees, and have pretty bad working conditions.. I try to keep those things in mind while comparing what I'm getting and what it supports.. Like I said before, I support the american way of life and our lifestyle as much as possible..

 

[Lurch]

I agree it is all CORPORATE GREED. The union workers making 30+ dollars an hour with 5 weeks vacation and full medical at little or no cost to them has nothing to do with the cost of American made products. It is a right as an American worker that we make these kinds of wages so we can buy that 4000+ sq foot house with the 4 car garage to put our 3 vehicles and 4 motorcycles in along with our boat, RV, snowmobiles and what have you.

 

[Justyntym]

I hear your argument, and I agree with some of the points you make, but at the same time we are competing with people living a third world lifestyle, making next to nothing.. The only ones doing well are the company owners and top execs.. I don't mind paying more for american products knowing that we are not only supporting our country, keeping our people employed with good jobs, and preserving our way of life.. If we want to compete with a second or third world, well, I'm pretty sure we will have to live that way too... I'm not saying we can't trim some fat, but that would also involve lowering taxes, workers comp, etc, to help ease the burden placed on american co.'s compared to the foreign competition..

We're talking motorcycles here though...Japan is not a third world slave labor
county and look at the new Vulcan line...The standard cruiser with tons
of new R&D....$12,999. Water cooled and with the 109 ft of torque. Compair that
to a Fat Boy with no R&D at $15,999 with a weaker motor (a couple years ago
I believe said Fat Boy was around 18 grand).

My grip is if Harley is going to charge premium price they need to have a
premium product and bring the "A" game.

I read somewhere the author commented on Harley's business plan is...
they sell starter bike kits at a premium price and then expect the consumer
to dole out extra money for performance and bling to personalize the product
from their extensive accessory catalog. (and it is extensive so the theory fits)

And the thing is, I don't have a huge problem with the above except for the
things that get really really expensive to upgrade....LIKE THE ENGINE.
Give me a strong base to work with and I don't mind adding this and that, that's
what makes it yours...but paying $3000-$4000 over the competition and then
paying another $3000-$4000 for engine upgrades just to get you CLOSE to
what the competition is giving away as standard ???

It's gotta have some UMPH when I twist the throtle or fahgetaboutit. I'll ride
something else..something BETTER...and CHEAPER.

BTW-Birdhunter, getting back to your quoted post...you do ride a Busa right
made in Japan...get it...

 

[Turbo-Torch]

Suzuki's not in trouble bro....they just arent selling in USA, thats why they're not bringing in any 2010's yet, but they're still doing just fine with the bike sales everywhere else in the world. No motorcycle company is selling very well in the US right now. The problem with Harley Davidson is that they dont really have the rest of the world to turn to like the other manufacturers do. Everyone else in the world looks at them the same way they look at American cars........like they're junk! They only sell in America because they're American. I mean honestly...They're underpowered, overpriced, and underdeveloped compared to all the competition out there. My whole family rides HD with the exception of myself and as proof that Harleys arent bought for "quality"...you can ask any Harley rider why they bought a Harley and you almost always get the same answer..."Cause its a Harley!"

Suzuki's not in trouble? Do you really think a huge company dying in the US market and relying on scooter and commuter bike sales in 3rd world countries isn't in trouble?

Do you have a source of information that shows how well Suzuki is doing?

According to Businessweek, for the first half ended in Sept. 2009, Suzuki's net profit dropped by 63.4% from one year earlier and their operating profit tanked 47.5%.

I wonder if the new facility they're building in Thai will help their operating profits? Or will sales sink more because of people not wanting to buy products made in a country known for its forced child labor? ???

 

[blusmbl]

It's gotta have some UMPH when I twist the throtle or fahgetaboutit. I'll ride
something else..something BETTER...and CHEAPER.

I don't knock the metric cruisers, but they aren't for me. I don't care if the VTX or Rocket 3 is quicker, if I'm buying a cruiser looks take precedence over performance. Seriously... the one Victory full dresser looks like a damn space shuttle. Even if it was capable of giving me a bj while riding down the road I'm not going to consider it because it's got a face only a mother could love!

 

[Bird Hunter]

We're talking motorcycles here though...Japan is not a third world slave labor
county and look at the new Vulcan line...The standard cruiser with tons
of new R&D....$12,999. Water cooled and with the 109 ft of torque. Compair that
to a Fat Boy with no R&D at $15,999 with a weaker motor (a couple years ago
I believe said Fat Boy was around 18 grand).

My grip is if Harley is going to charge premium price they need to have a
premium product and bring the "A" game.

I read somewhere the author commented on Harley's business plan is...
they sell starter bike kits at a premium price and then expect the consumer
to dole out extra money for performance and bling to personalize the product
from their extensive accessory catalog. (and it is extensive so the theory fits)

And the thing is, I don't have a huge problem with the above except for the
things that get really really expensive to upgrade....LIKE THE ENGINE.
Give me a strong base to work with and I don't mind adding this and that, that's
what makes it yours...but paying $3000-$4000 over the competition and then
paying another $3000-$4000 for engine upgrades just to get you CLOSE to
what the competition is giving away as standard ???

It's gotta have some UMPH when I twist the throtle or fahgetaboutit. I'll ride
something else..something BETTER...and CHEAPER.

BTW-Birdhunter, getting back to your quoted post...you do ride a Busa right
made in Japan...get it...

We could argue all day about pay/benefits etc, compared between the two countries.. In the end, there is a huge gap between them and us. Do we need to pay less and cut benefits ? Maybe so.. I know I wouldn't mind getting taxed less on my labor to support all our social programs. Maybe let our standard of living drop to theirs ? Sure.. You might want to go take a look at how the everyday worker lives though, I've seen it, it's not good...

Anyway, your last question, do I ride a BUSA... Yes I do.. I also ride a Harley, and drive an american truck.. Not sure why the jab about owning a Busa though ?? Should I not have bought one ???

 

[Bird Hunter]

I don't knock the metric cruisers, but they aren't for me. I don't care if the VTX or Rocket 3 is quicker, if I'm buying a cruiser looks take precedence over performance. Seriously... the one Victory full dresser looks like a damn space shuttle. Even if it was capable of giving me a bj while riding down the road I'm not going to consider it because it's got a face only a mother could love!

You got that right !! Funny how they all try to imitate the Harley sound as well

What's even funnier, most try to look like harley's as well.. Sometimes you have to look close to tell the difference... Why would they want to look and sound like a Harley ???

 

[skydivr]

Even if it was capable of giving me a bj while riding down the road ....

Where can I buy one of THESE bikes at!