Custom engine builders?

[TheAtomicAss]

After a rather protracted hiatus, I'm back, and thinking about a custom engine.

For what? That I haven't decided yet.

As I've never gone out looking for shops that do this sort of work, I have no contacts. As such, can anyone recommend a shop that builds custom engines?

And by custom, I don't mean warm-over an existing engine, I mean making the whole engine block from scratch, and willing to work with me on a non-standard (read: not 2 or 4 stroke) design.

 

[Quiksilver]

Hmm custom block? That's a first for me but sounds like $$$ what are you working on sounds fun lol. Good luck with it the build

 

[TallTom]

I'll be the first one to say yes I can hook you up. But they won't even turn on the switches until they see what kind of budget you have. If what you are proposing is from scratch block, please have the $$$$$ to back up the dream. That one task will be a budget right there.

And since you don't really know what you want it for........

His last engine proto was a crankshaftless 4 cylinder engine. Funded by a university. They didn't know what they wanted it for either.....other than proof of concept. It worked. It was $$$$$$

 

[GNBRETT]

u can buy a billet block. not gonna make much difference tho. yes wat is ur budget and wat ru tryn to accomplish here?

 

[FlatlandBusa]

How big do you want to go? How deep are your pockets?

Billet blocks on all of these...

SAR 1005 (2150 HP) - Sonny's Racing Engines

EXTREME PRO STOCK 932 CU. IN. 2140 HP RACING ENGINE - Sonny's Racing Engines - Sonny's Racing Engines

PRO MOD 959 CU.IN. OVER 3000 HP ON FOUR MODERATE SYSTEMS - Sonny's Racing Engines

 

[semi]

back, there's a name i haven't seen in a few years! hope all has been going well

 

[TheAtomicAss]

back, there's a name i haven't seen in a few years! hope all has been going well

Stultifying, is a brief way of describing the last five years.

As far as my budget and the engine, I want to say $10k? But that could be flexible. As for the design? I made a Doc. And I was talking specifically about a motorcycle engine, I'm just not sure what chassis I plan to put it in.

And the goal is to prove a theory I have, that larger cylinder counts are more thermally efficient than fewer, and to try to get >150mpg on the roads with a reasonably powerful engine.

 

[Blackmax]

$10K ? Not much of a budget for what you want done .

 

[Johnnycheese]

10 k .next......

 

[jellyrug]

How big do you want to go? How deep are your pockets?

Billet blocks on all of these...

SAR 1005 (2150 HP) - Sonny's Racing Engines

EXTREME PRO STOCK 932 CU. IN. 2140 HP RACING ENGINE - Sonny's Racing Engines - Sonny's Racing Engines

PRO MOD 959 CU.IN. OVER 3000 HP ON FOUR MODERATE SYSTEMS - Sonny's Racing Engines

Any one of those in a Busa, let me know. Need my video camera when he cracks the throttle a hair past idle.

 

[jellyrug]

And the goal is to prove a theory I have, that larger cylinder counts are more thermally efficient than fewer, and to try to get >150mpg on the roads with a reasonably powerful engine.

When you have beaten the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and Zeroth laws of Thermodynamics, you will walk next to Einstein in the history books. Unless "reasonably powerful" means less than 10hp.

 

[TallTom]

Now now boys. Don't piss on his Cheerios.

OK You'll need $60K. 50% up front. I'll give you my PayPal addy.

 

[FlatlandBusa]

Any one of those in a Busa, let me know. Need my video camera when he cracks the throttle a hair past idle.

Hey there has been a 502 in a bike, what's a few more inches?

 

[FlatlandBusa]

Stultifying, is a brief way of describing the last five years.

As far as my budget and the engine, I want to say $10k? But that could be flexible. As for the design? I made a Doc. And I was talking specifically about a motorcycle engine, I'm just not sure what chassis I plan to put it in.

And the goal is to prove a theory I have, that larger cylinder counts are more thermally efficient than fewer, and to try to get >150mpg on the roads with a reasonably powerful engine.

$10K won't even get a top on the line induction system let alone the rest of the parts to make a running engine. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[nosbig]

Gotta think that a 502 on a Busa would affect the handling.

 

[FlatlandBusa]

Gotta think that a 502 on a Busa would affect the handling.

Yes it would, I think it would be like a turtle, except you wouldn't even need to get as far over as upside down to be immovable...

 

[TheAtomicAss]

When you have beaten the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and Zeroth laws of Thermodynamics, you will walk next to Einstein in the history books. Unless "reasonably powerful" means less than 10hp.

By "reasonably powerful", I wasn't intending to match the power output of a 'Busa, of course. But perhaps be on par with a 650 twin.

 

[TheAtomicAss]

Now now boys. Don't piss on his Cheerios.

OK You'll need $60K. 50% up front. I'll give you my PayPal addy.

$60k hurts to hear...But doesn't turn me off to the idea.

But I'll be damned if I trust PayPal with $60k.

 

[fallenarch]

Stultifying, is a brief way of describing the last five years.

As far as my budget and the engine, I want to say $10k? But that could be flexible. As for the design? I made a Doc. And I was talking specifically about a motorcycle engine, I'm just not sure what chassis I plan to put it in.

And the goal is to prove a theory I have, that larger cylinder counts are more thermally efficient than fewer, and to try to get >150mpg on the roads with a reasonably powerful engine.

The AtomicAss,

It is already clear that a small cylinder is more thermally efficient than a larger one. Given both are running similar octane gas and similarily aspirated, a smaller piston crown and combustion chamber will probably be more thermally efficient for many reasons. But it's not so simple. More cylinders means more friction and weight, all big negatives to efficiency. Further, the added complexity and packaging problems of too many cylinders is prohibitive. I can imagine an 8 cylinder 1340 cc Busa but it would be quite heavy. Realize also that small pistons need high revs to get good power, which reduces thermal efficiency and fuel economy.

I can imagine a V6 motorcycle, in fact there are (or have been) engines like this already, or maybe even a V8. I think thermal efficiency would best come from using some of the heat energy typically wasted, like a turbo charger. I suppose it would be possible to have a V4 gas engine with 2 additional steam powered cylinders with the steam generated from the waste heat from the V4. But again there is the complexity and need to either carry a water supply or condenser system to recirculate the water for the steam engine. So I'm not sure there are many options here that offer big gains in efficiency.

Obviously a 2 stroke is the biggest pig when it comes to any kind of efficiency. A direct injected 2 stroke could work, as a smaller displacement 2 stroke can produce big power and direct injection would limit some of the inherent inefficiencies of a 2 stroker. 4 stroke is a good compromise. Increasing the strokes means more unpowered strokes. This can be overcome with more cylinders and offset cranks like the Yamaha R1. Adding cylinders and adding power pulses may help thermal efficiency but it will not be good for power. Also an engine like this would need higher rpms.

Truth be told 150 mpg is well within current technology in a 1340cc motorcycle engine. Better injection technology, dead cylinders (drop 2 off in low demand), and gearing could all make 150 mpg possible. The real ticket to thermal efficiency is running the engine at a constant rpm. This could be done with a CVT. The trick to gas mileage is going hybrid.

As for money, this would cost millions, not $10,000. If you want to see what developing and engine costs, watch the documentary on the MotoGP engine effort MotoCZ made.

 

[jellyrug]

The AtomicAss,

It is already clear that a small cylinder is more thermally efficient than a larger one. Given both are running similar octane gas and similarily aspirated, a smaller piston crown and combustion chamber will probably be more thermally efficient for many reasons. But it's not so simple. More cylinders means more friction and weight, all big negatives to efficiency. Further, the added complexity and packaging problems of too many cylinders is prohibitive. I can imagine an 8 cylinder 1340 cc Busa but it would be quite heavy. Realize also that small pistons need high revs to get good power, which reduces thermal efficiency and fuel economy.

I can imagine a V6 motorcycle, in fact there are (or have been) engines like this already, or maybe even a V8. I think thermal efficiency would best come from using some of the heat energy typically wasted, like a turbo charger. I suppose it would be possible to have a V4 gas engine with 2 additional steam powered cylinders with the steam generated from the waste heat from the V4. But again there is the complexity and need to either carry a water supply or condenser system to recirculate the water for the steam engine. So I'm not sure there are many options here that offer big gains in efficiency.

Obviously a 2 stroke is the biggest pig when it comes to any kind of efficiency. A direct injected 2 stroke could work, as a smaller displacement 2 stroke can produce big power and direct injection would limit some of the inherent inefficiencies of a 2 stroker. 4 stroke is a good compromise. Increasing the strokes means more unpowered strokes. This can be overcome with more cylinders and offset cranks like the Yamaha R1. Adding cylinders and adding power pulses may help thermal efficiency but it will not be good for power. Also an engine like this would need higher rpms.

Truth be told 150 mpg is well within current technology in a 1340cc motorcycle engine. Better injection technology, dead cylinders (drop 2 off in low demand), and gearing could all make 150 mpg possible. The real ticket to thermal efficiency is running the engine at a constant rpm. This could be done with a CVT. The trick to gas mileage is going hybrid.

As for money, this would cost millions, not $10,000. If you want to see what developing and engine costs, watch the documentary on the MotoGP engine effort MotoCZ made.

Nah, Arch, you missed it.

A tiny nuclear reactor hidden in the frame, water in the tank and the frame filled with a hydrogen cell. Then a DC motor. We can get a major discount if we do this project in Iran, provided negotiations with Obama fail.