Did TSA go to far?

[mikeu]

According to the TSA, "Passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process. Cooperation may involve answering questions about their property. A passenger who refuses to answer questions may be referred to appropriate authorities for further inquiry"

Bierfeldt contends he never refused to answer a question, he only sought to clarify his constitutional rights.

The TSA agent had a "right" to question this guy. If he does not answer questions he can be referred to the appropriate agency. So yea they have the right to detain you if you do not answer questions. I know he says he never refused to answer questions, he just never answered them. (I don't refuse to eat worms, I just don't.) They informed him that they would involve the FBI and local police. So I think they informed him of their intentions. I would welcome an outside agency getting involved if I felt I was being harrassed. In this article Steve did not ask for legal counsel. The TSA agent was guilty of bad language.

 

[Dino]

According to the TSA, "Passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process. Cooperation may involve answering questions about their property. A passenger who refuses to answer questions may be referred to appropriate authorities for further inquiry"

Bierfeldt contends he never refused to answer a question, he only sought to clarify his constitutional rights.

The TSA agent had a "right" to question this guy. If he does not answer questions he can be referred to the appropriate agency. So yea they have the right to detain you if you do not answer questions. I know he says he never refused to answer questions, he just never answered them. (I don't refuse to eat worms, I just don't.) They informed him that they would involve the FBI and local police. So I think they informed him of their intentions. I would welcome an outside agency getting involved if I felt I was being harrassed. In this article Steve did not ask for legal counsel. The TSA agent was guilty of bad language.

Exactly, He never refused he only asked what his rights were. He did nothing wrong and nothing in his luggage was illegal or even questionable. The TSA agent should have immediately called an appropriate agenct if there really was an issue. He was illegally detained because the TSA took no action.

 

[mikeu]

So then the TSA was right. He was not detained. The entire incident lasted less than 30 minutes.

 

[Dino]

So then the TSA was right. He was not detained. The entire incident lasted less than 30 minutes.

Yes he was detained and questioned and threatened. Point is he should not have been detained in the first place.

 

[HT_USMC]

According to the TSA, "Passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process. Cooperation may involve answering questions about their property. A passenger who refuses to answer questions may be referred to appropriate authorities for further inquiry"

Bierfeldt contends he never refused to answer a question, he only sought to clarify his constitutional rights.

The TSA agent had a "right" to question this guy. If he does not answer questions he can be referred to the appropriate agency. So yea they have the right to detain you if you do not answer questions. I know he says he never refused to answer questions, he just never answered them. (I don't refuse to eat worms, I just don't.) They informed him that they would involve the FBI and local police. So I think they informed him of their intentions. I would welcome an outside agency getting involved if I felt I was being harrassed. In this article Steve did not ask for legal counsel. The TSA agent was guilty of bad language.

A citizen has a right to be informed of their rights prior to any line of questioning. In this case he was not informed and he was asking for clarification prior to answering that line of questioning. The TSA had a responsibility to uphold this person's rights. Baited or not, they failed to do so.

 

[t-minus]

So then the TSA was right. He was not detained. The entire incident lasted less than 30 minutes.

LOL 30 seconds or 30 min is being detained. Like I always say it's never looked at the same if it was not you. He asked to be informed of his rights
and only got smart ass remarks. TSA is what $9 an hour that right there says
their not well trained.

 

[afterhours]

this was planned......an attempt at getting publicity.

when you are asked a question, you can answer it or not.

he never answered the question.

he doesn't have to say "I REFUSE TO ANSWER"

he did not answer.

it could have been over in 12 seconds,

TSA : why do you have all this cash?
BIERHFELDT : i sell Ron Paul memorabillia.

TSA : OK, have a nice day

 

[skydivr]

It was totally baited, and they took it hook, line and sinker - did exactly what he hoped they would do, overstep their bounds.

he could have said:
"I'm going to vegas to buy H_O_O_K_E_R_S!, and I like to pay cash"
"I've got a sweet deal on an 09 BUSA, and get the hell out of my way!"
"It's a campaign contribution for Obama" - They'd have upgraded him to first class..

The TSA should have POLITELY said "Sir, you are under no right to tell me why you have the money, but if you do not disclose, we find it suspicisious, will not allow you to board your flight and detain you until the proper law enforcement agency has the opportunity to question you and decide if they want to place you into further custody...If you choose to adequately explain yourself to our satisfaction, we'll be glad to let you board."

One bad TSA agent does not make all TSA agents bad; just like one bad LEO does not make all LEOs bad. Unfortunatly, he is gonna make a big stink out of it, and the ACLU, the "Champion of all people and all that is good and right" will make a stink out of it.

 

[Dino]

was if Ben Franklin that said something to the effect of: if you give up your rights in the name of security you deserve neither.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[zukracer]

I have to deal with TSA folks all the freakin time, probably way more than most members here. I will say for the most part they do their jobs, I have had a few get lippy with me and the few times I have had the time to return a verbal jab or two, its not been pretty but I never had the situation that guy did. There are things you just never ever never say when in the airport, certainly not in the TSA screening line...an example, bomb, blowd up, crash, burn, smuggle, etc. There are laws for transporting 10k in cash or precious materials, usually only enforced when leaving the country but still holds true on domestic flights. Why someone would need to carry that sum of money in a lock box on a plane is beyond me. There are banks all over, he could have found a better way to handle the situation. TSA should have handled it better too, if I was that guy I dont know how I would have reacted but I'd bet the TSA wouldnt have been the only ones cussin on the recording

I also agree with the shoes thing, but hey, if you like our process go fly through London, they got a whole other machine just for scanning shoes. All because that one door knob had a bomb in his shoes.... why cant someone smuggle a bomb in their bra, there's a screening 1/2 the population would beotch about while the other half cheers

 

[ibified]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Is the actual quote. Very true then and very true today. And yes, Dino, thats Benjamin Franklin's quote.

Zukracer: he was carrying about $4700 in cash, which, last I checked, is less than the $10,000 you mentioned as having laws governing it.

 

[Dino]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Is the actual quote. Very true then and very true today. And yes, Dino, thats Benjamin Franklin's quote.

Thanks
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[zukracer]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Is the actual quote. Very true then and very true today. And yes, Dino, thats Benjamin Franklin's quote.

Zukracer: he was carrying about $4700 in cash, which, last I checked, is less than the $10,000 you mentioned as having laws governing it.

yeah, I pretty much was just was pointing out that someone had mentioned carrying large sums of cash is not illegal in the US, it is if you cross 10k. I would also point out that some states might have different laws, in NC if you have a cash transaction of more than 4k you get flagged for the state revenue dept....feds only care about 10k and up.

All that being said, unless you are travelling with a gaggle of strippers or just look like you are a millionaire, having $4700 on your person is going to draw some attention. Its not a "normal" amount that people travel with but the TSA should not have reacted to it if nothing else was out of the ordinary. If anything, they should have screened his bag, run the spectrum analyzer and if it came back dirty for anything (drugs most likely their thought) then pull him and ask questions. If it came back clean, eh, let the dude go who knows maybe he's just stupid and likes to carry large sums of cash

 

[chevellesteve]

oh man . it dose not matter if he bated them . we have a set of constitutional rights afforded to us by our for fathers to protect us form the government . why? because the men that wrote them had already experienced tyranny in the old world and knew what would happen if those laws were not written. it doesn't matter if it would have been faster to answer the question the point is you don't have too. for all of you that say just deal with it you should move to a communist country because that's what there people did they just dealt with it. to the rest of you stand up for your rights don't lay down for these mother f ers . the problem with this country is to many people just dealing with it that's why we are in the position we are in . don't back down when you are right fight for what you believe in don't lay down and take it . well enough of that

 

[head east busa]

oh man . it dose not matter if he bated them . we have a set of constitutional rights afforded to us by our for fathers to protect us form the government . why? because the men that wrote them had already experienced tyranny in the old world and knew what would happen if those laws were not written. it doesn't matter if it would have been faster to answer the question the point is you don't have too. for all of you that say just deal with it you should move to a communist country because that's what there people did they just dealt with it. to the rest of you stand up for your rights don't lay down for these mother f ers . the problem with this country is to many people just dealing with it that's why we are in the position we are in . don't back down when you are right fight for what you believe in don't lay down and take it . well enough of that

AMEN Brotha

 

[chevellesteve]

i know some people wont like my previous post and may not agree . but please do me a favor and get a copy of the constitution and read it so you can make informed decisions and if you still disagree with me i will respect that. much love

 

[ibified]

thats one thing that makes this country great isnt it? We can all disagree and nobody can do chit about it!

 

[captain]

It was totally baited, and they took it hook, line and sinker - did exactly what he hoped they would do, overstep their bounds.

he could have said:
"I'm going to vegas to buy H_O_O_K_E_R_S!, and I like to pay cash"
"I've got a sweet deal on an 09 BUSA, and get the hell out of my way!"
"It's a campaign contribution for Obama" - They'd have upgraded him to first class..

The TSA should have POLITELY said "Sir, you are under no right to tell me why you have the money, but if you do not disclose, we find it suspicisious, will not allow you to board your flight and detain you until the proper law enforcement agency has the opportunity to question you and decide if they want to place you into further custody...If you choose to adequately explain yourself to our satisfaction, we'll be glad to let you board."

One bad TSA agent does not make all TSA agents bad; just like one bad LEO does not make all LEOs bad. Unfortunatly, he is gonna make a big stink out of it, and the ACLU, the "Champion of all people and all that is good and right" will make a stink out of it.

I disagree... What law has be broken? Because there are other ways to transport money doesnt mean the way that he did was illegal. TSA had no right nor (here is a oldie but a goodie) probable cause or reasonable suspicion that he had violated any law.

The equivilant in my opinion would be a cop that stops a car because the tag is almost out of date... no laws violated but the officer decides that since the tag is out today it will be out in a month...

 

[teamorion22]

interesting story. some good points have been made. i don't believe he 'baited' them but I do not know. I don't think that really makes a difference. I agree with cap. We have specific things in our constitution put there for a reason. if it's a gray area, then we do as the supreme court tells us or whatever. but when the constitution is cut and dry it must be followed.

I like Ron Paul

 

[Fastfrog007]

Not a poke at all Leo's, but this kinda sounds like a case of "I got a badge and gun so you will do as I say" They had a question and so did he, they answer his...