ECU editor and PC V

[Jza]

Errr... think some of you are being told porkies?

The tuning guy i went to said there was infinately more adjustments possible in the ECU than on a PCV. He cracked the ECU to fix something else FOC and then the first thing he said to me afterwards was "now ive cracked the ECU, ditch the PCV and flog it on ebay and we'll sort the Busa out properly".

If you tuner knows what he's doing, he doesnt need a PCV....

Jza

 

[FirstBusa2014]

All there saying is some dyno shops don't have the wiring harness for the ecu's, or are not familiar with the software. And only tune with PC.
Yes your right as are most ok n here that you can do a ton more adjustments with ecu editor them with a PC.

 

[jellyrug]

Errr... think some of you are being told porkies?

The tuning guy i went to said there was infinately more adjustments possible in the ECU than on a PCV. He cracked the ECU to fix something else FOC and then the first thing he said to me afterwards was "now ive cracked the ECU, ditch the PCV and flog it on ebay and we'll sort the Busa out properly".

If you tuner knows what he's doing, he doesnt need a PCV....

Jza

I did a bit of communication with a few builders, some pretty high rated. Those who prefer the PCV offer reasons which I believe are excuses and not real. I believe in the end for a tuner the PCV is more user friendly, easier to use and takes less time, hence their preference.

 

[fallenarch]

I think most tuners have a stock of base maps. When they get a bike in they load the one they think will be best for the specific bike and then just make adjustments to it. So that's why they tend to want to use whatever they are used to. Dynojet was first in there and is the most popular and they make the dyno's - so that's what people lean to.

 

[shade]

Its a lack of wanting to change.
Tuners dont want to learn new crap.
if they were in teh car tuning business they wouldnt be in business.
get with the times

 

[POWERHOUSE]

There are several posters on this thread spewing opinions out their You guys are making me laugh, a lot to say and not 5 minutes of dyno tuning experience. How could you possibly know what is good and what is not? The best thing is to speak to your own tuner - someone you trust - and go with what that person is EXPERIENCED on and what he is comfortable with. I have 15+ years of dyno tuning experience, I have tuned with ecus, pcs, split second boxes, microtechs, and a lot of junk I won't mention. Yes, an ecu has over FOUR times the resolution of a pc and is not only more accurate, but quicker. That does not necessarily mean tuning through the ecu is better. There are times it is not about hardware, it is about software. My own opinions on different methods of tuning is just that - MY opinion. At least it is based on years of ACTUAL experience with different hardware and software. I go with results, I go with what works the best, results in the best overall tune, and doesn't beat the crap out of the bike for hours. And yes, custom maps are just that - custom. Every cell is checked and corrected, roll-ons, steady-state, cruise, everything. A "tuner" that drops a base map in and makes adjustments is not a tuner. You get what you pay for!

 

[jellyrug]

There are several posters on this thread spewing opinions out their You guys are making me laugh, a lot to say and not 5 minutes of dyno tuning experience. How could you possibly know what is good and what is not? The best thing is to speak to your own tuner - someone you trust - and go with what that person is EXPERIENCED on and what he is comfortable with. I have 15+ years of dyno tuning experience, I have tuned with ecus, pcs, split second boxes, microtechs, and a lot of junk I won't mention. Yes, an ecu has over FOUR times the resolution of a pc and is not only more accurate, but quicker. That does not necessarily mean tuning through the ecu is better. There are times it is not about hardware, it is about software. My own opinions on different methods of tuning is just that - MY opinion. At least it is based on years of ACTUAL experience with different hardware and software. I go with results, I go with what works the best, results in the best overall tune, and doesn't beat the crap out of the bike for hours. And yes, custom maps are just that - custom. Every cell is checked and corrected, roll-ons, steady-state, cruise, everything. A "tuner" that drops a base map in and makes adjustments is not a tuner. You get what you pay for!

Good post!!!

I will be a bad customer though, because the only tuner I will trust when deviating from Suzuki factory settings is me.

The way I look at it is the best way to preserve a Busa's true value and legend is to keep it bone stock. Once you start fiddling with it, it becomes a hobby and the value equation is no longer first priority. So why take to fun out of it and let someone else do your hobby for you?

If you have a solid automotive background, 15 years worth of dyno tuning relates to at the most 6 months repeated 30 times.

Frank, this was just a test of your sense of humor, I liked your post even if it was a bit strong.

 

[Don Hardcastle]

There are several posters on this thread spewing opinions out their You guys are making me laugh, a lot to say and not 5 minutes of dyno tuning experience. How could you possibly know what is good and what is not? The best thing is to speak to your own tuner - someone you trust - and go with what that person is EXPERIENCED on and what he is comfortable with. I have 15+ years of dyno tuning experience, I have tuned with ecus, pcs, split second boxes, microtechs, and a lot of junk I won't mention. Yes, an ecu has over FOUR times the resolution of a pc and is not only more accurate, but quicker. That does not necessarily mean tuning through the ecu is better. There are times it is not about hardware, it is about software. My own opinions on different methods of tuning is just that - MY opinion. At least it is based on years of ACTUAL experience with different hardware and software. I go with results, I go with what works the best, results in the best overall tune, and doesn't beat the crap out of the bike for hours. And yes, custom maps are just that - custom. Every cell is checked and corrected, roll-ons, steady-state, cruise, everything. A "tuner" that drops a base map in and makes adjustments is not a tuner. You get what you pay for!

Frank,
To make sure I understand.. You are saying that every situation (build) is different and what may be the best tuning option for this build might not be the best for another. The key is the best tune with the least wear and tear through the process?

 

[Got-Busa?]

It doesn't really matter which is the best. Find out what your LOCAL COMPETENT TUNER uses and go with what he recommends. You can debate until you are blue that a MOTEC, ECU, PC, etc..etc..is better but if your builder/tuner doesn't know how to use one over the other it's all pointless. Stick with what they recommend. If you want something different then find someone that does what YOU WANT and be willing to travel or pay for the tuning results you are looking for...

 

[POWERHOUSE]

It doesn't really matter which is the best. Find out what your LOCAL COMPETENT TUNER uses and go with what he recommends. You can debate until you are blue that a MOTEC, ECU, PC, etc..etc..is better but if your builder/tuner doesn't know how to use one over the other it's all pointless. Stick with what they recommend. If you want something different then find someone that does what YOU WANT and be willing to travel or pay for the tuning results you are looking for...

Which is the "best" is a relative term not to be debated by the non-qualified who have no experience with the available options and are only parroting what they heard. There are tuners with years of experience that DO know how to use and work with all the different platforms and STILL have their own opinions as to what is best; these opinions are based on what they have done, over and over and over again. Got-Busa is right- find a COMPETENT tuner, go with what he suggests and realize his suggestion is based on his experience and results. There is no substitute!

 

[Tony Nitrous]

I have two local guys doing ECU hacks and live not far from Woolich Racing.

I had to smile recently, a dyno guy said....

"If your TV isn't showing the channel you want,
do you buy another TV to sit on top of it ?
or do you change the channel ?"

Funny, but not a bad analogy.

 

[cwalker2]

I think that while it is true the ECU Editor/Woolich RacingTuned offer many more cells or bins to fill tin, which can be considered higher resolution, one has to look at where they are. If your tuner tunes through the ECU, he better get each cell tuned correctly, else at some point in time you are going to pass through say 55% throttle at 5600 rpm and if he left it untouched, your hot road motor is going to fuel incorrectly. Since a PCV is using the base map in the ECU and simply altering the fueling, if the whole area around that 55% tps/5600 rpm is richer(say 5500 to 5750 between 40 and 60%), well then everything has fuel added.

Also the steps in Editor at higher rpm are every 400 not 250 like the Power Commander. I think that's why some tuners say the PCV offers better resolution.

In the end does one method absolutely dominate over the other one? I think a bike with a well tuned PCV and another with a well tuned ECU will drive so well that most riders would not be able to tell you what method was used to tune the bike. Like wise a crappy job with either is going to result in glitchy performance. If your local tuner knows how to tune, have him use what he likes. I bought a PCV when they came out so that I knew how it worked before my customers brought me one. So yes, I've had both PCV and Editor to tune my personal bike(s). Hell, I've had the old Yoshimura, Bazzaz, Techlusion, Cobra, Rapid Bike, Motec, Hahn Racecraft (Accel), Megasquirt and more in here. You can "tune" any of them to make a bike drivable and perform well.

That said, I wouldn't bring ECU editor to someone who doesn't know ECU Editor. It's not that the fundamentals are any different, but we did see one fellow who had his local tuner add so much fuel to bottom end of his map that the mileage was poor. I reviewed the map and said, "He added 10 to bin with 20 in it. Why would someone add 50% to the fuel there?" I bet his tuner thought like a Power Commander he added 10%!

Anyway, I've kind of digressed, but my point is, if you have a good tuner down the street, use what he's familiar with. You will both be happier in the end.

 

[fallenarch]

Frankly (pun intended) it's BS to say just shut up and use what your tuner knows best. For me I'm trying to find out if one is truly better than the other or offers something I think I want in my bike's tune. If it does and I decided I want it, I'll find a tuner who can deliver those benefits even if that means loading it on a trailer and traveling a day or two. But if I don't know what is possible then I can't make the best decisions. Riding my is only part of the joy I get in owning a Busa. I like to improve it and understand the machine so I'm always looking for something better.

 

[cwalker2]

Frankly (pun intended) it's BS to say just shut up and use what your tuner knows best. For me I'm trying to find out if one is truly better than the other or offers something I think I want in my bike's tune. If it does and I decided I want it, I'll find a tuner who can deliver those benefits even if that means loading it on a trailer and traveling a day or two. But if I don't know what is possible then I can't make the best decisions. Riding my is only part of the joy I get in owning a Busa. I like to improve it and understand the machine so I'm always looking for something better.

I think at that point the question becomes, "Which one is better for ME?" You have to read up on all your options and decide. It's like when a newbie rider comes up and asks which is the best bike. Sure you could answer him, but do you really know what's best?

My bike is tuned with ECU Editor. It allows me to tune and turn on and off the option in the ECU that I want (my air shifter is run through the ECU for example). I've had a few customers who bought cables and wanted ECU Editor tunes. In most cases it made sense. But I would say the rest who showed up with PCIIIs or PCVs were not worse off with just their pipe and air box mods.

ECU Editor lets you adjust a lot more stuff than a PCV. That is simple to answer. Do you NEED access to everything it offers and does it make sense for you to hunt down the guy that knows it very well? That's a question only the end user can answer. If the end user cannot read about his options and understand what each offers him, then he's not qualified to make the decision. At that point he obviously must defer to his local tuner. Let's just hope his local tuner is good.

 

[POWERHOUSE]

Frankly (pun intended) it's BS to say just shut up and use what your tuner knows best. For me I'm trying to find out if one is truly better than the other or offers something I think I want in my bike's tune. If it does and I decided I want it, I'll find a tuner who can deliver those benefits even if that means loading it on a trailer and traveling a day or two. But if I don't know what is possible then I can't make the best decisions. Riding my is only part of the joy I get in owning a Busa. I like to improve it and understand the machine so I'm always looking for something better.

FA- the YEARS of EXPERIENCE and the RESULTS from a particular tuner are usually well-known, and that is what you should rely on. Give some of us some credit for what we do! You rely on your doctor, your lawyer and other professionals to get something done, don't you? You let them do it their way in hopes of the best result, yes? Just do your research, find out who you like and go with them. Its a little more involved than walking into McDonald's and debating about how they are making your Happy Meal!

This subject has been talked to death, and there is plenty of threads you can search to make your own decision . . .

 

[fallenarch]

Just because I want to understand what is going on does not mean I don't trust my tuner. In most cases it actually validates what they are telling me Frank. If I had you build a motor for me I would ask a million questions even though I would accept your judgment probably 99.9% of the time. I wouldn't bring it to you if I didn't want the benefit of your wisdom. I just like to understand more so than the guy who is just looking to hop on the bike and ride. For the people reading this, if Frank tells you something and I tell you something different - FRANK IS MORE THAN LIKELY RIGHT!

 

[Jza]

I did a bit of communication with a few builders, some pretty high rated. Those who prefer the PCV offer reasons which I believe are excuses and not real. I believe in the end for a tuner the PCV is more user friendly, easier to use and takes less time, hence their preference.

Easier for him (he doesnt have to learn something) plus he doesnt want to invest in the ECU side of it.... and he sells PCV's.... maybe we should tell the MotoGP guys that they should get PCV's as its better? LOL