ecu flash

[twotonevert]

This may need to be something I think about. Thank you Boosted, I will be in touch soon. By the way, I would prefer to use a site vendor who knows what they are doing and I trust. The Cheese is legend, these guys know their stuff. If you are new members or new to busa's, listen to them.

 

[Bailey9r]

No problem, and yes, you're correct.

Why do they retard the first 4 gears? Just to keep squids from flipping over on their heads or is it a matter of being more gentle on hardware like chains?

 

[sixpack577]

The restrictions are there to make the bike less aggressive, and more manageable for the masses.
And any good squid can still flip a stock Busa.

 

[Johnnycheese]

On a gen 2 there is no timing restrictions too many untrue statementso.
Just like using Woolich on a busa only ECU editor

 

[sixpack577]

On a gen 2 there is no timing restrictions too many untrue statementso.
Just like using Woolich on a busa only ECU editor

I just looked in Ecu Editor, and it now says "fuel limiter" for the restrictions, along with rpm limit, fuel soft cut.
It did not used to say that, as Ecu Editor has been through several updates. Just as the limits and top speed limiter were once removed seperately a few years ago(just check seperate boxes).
When you go to "Edit Igniton" now, it also says, "Ecu Editor TRE for gen2 Busa will be activated with ignition unify, using group 1's maps for all gears and modes".
So, a TRE, timing retard elimator, being active tells me that it removed a timing restriction.
I don't doubt your knowledge or ability, but please explain how a gen2 does not have timing restrictions.

 

[Johnnycheese]

I just looked in Ecu Editor, and it now says "fuel limiter" for the restrictions, along with rpm limit, fuel soft cut.
It did not used to say that, as Ecu Editor has been through several updates. Just as the limits and top speed limiter were once removed seperately a few years ago(just check seperate boxes).
When you go to "Edit Igniton" now, it also says, "Ecu Editor TRE for gen2 Busa will be activated with ignition unify, using group 1's maps for all gears and modes".
So, a TRE, timing retard elimator, being active tells me that it removed a timing restriction.
I don't doubt your knowledge or ability, but please explain how a gen2 does not have timing restrictions.

Never saw difference in torque or hp from 4 to 5 gear if you lean out 5th it will be the same as 4th

 

[Mythos]

I'm salivating....Only problem, I can tell you---if you think you're going to tune your own bike as thoroughly as a pro, you are taking some big chances on the road. Just did my AFR with DJ products and did more runs in excess of 100 mph in two months than I have ever done in my life. Top speed is a must if you do the upper revs and why would you not want to have that? Throw in timing and flies....you got yerself a puzzle, Buster! If you have the time and patience to learn, it will be a whole new world for you but don't set yourself up for a thousand bucks of stuff you you won't use. $50 flash sounds pretty good...could always do the full on Woolich attack later.

Talking to the OPer. GP2001

 

[sixpack577]

Never saw difference in torque or hp from 4 to 5 gear if you lean out 5th it will be the same as 4th

I don't doubt that either.
But no where have I ever claimed that removing restrictions in Ecu Editor increased hp or torque.
The gen2s do however feel more responsive at lower rpms with the restrictions turned off.
Ecu Editor cleary words it as a "TRE, timing retard eliminator".
So, I do not understand how I am "spreading false information" by saying that a gen2 ecu flash removes lower timing restrictions?
This is also not an argument, only a question.

 

[Johnnycheese]

I'm salivating....Only problem, I can tell you---if you think you're going to tune your own bike as thoroughly as a pro, you are taking some big chances on the road. Just did my AFR with DJ products and did more runs in excess of 100 mph in two months than I have ever done in my life. Top speed is a must if you do the upper revs and why would you not want to have that? Throw in timing and flies....you got yerself a puzzle, Buster! If you have the time and patience to learn, it will be a whole new world for you but don't set yourself up for a thousand bucks of stuff you you won't use. $50 flash sounds pretty good...could always do the full on Woolich attack later.

Talking to the OPer. GP2001

so just above you didn't read no Woolich?????????

 

[Mythos]

You're saying the flash doesn't increase peak hp or tq at WOT on a Gen2 or are you saying it doesn't improve anything at any TP or rpm? Improved low rpm and small TP performance is of great value unless all you do with the bike is drag race. I know there must be something that can be done to smooth out the flies opening.

 

[sixpack577]

The "flies", secondary throttle plates are adjusted in a basic ecu flash.
It is a simple copy/paste of their opening rate from 1st/5th gear, to 2, 3, 4, and 6th.
The stp fueling is set to 100% in every cell, every gear. This is not the air/fuel ratio.
Just using all of what is already available.
I know that these settings are correct.
As I ask Smith himself...and he them came on my computer via Internet and set them for me, explaining what he was doing(great guy to talk to).
I AM NOT a dyno tuner, and I have never claimed to be. Just a mechanic who enjoys using the simple functions that Ecu Editor allows, without touching the air/fuel ratio, or needing a dyno.
The settings I mentioned above may change with a dyno tune, but for a basic flash, that's it. Including the smart TRE setting with top speed limiter removal, fuel soft cut turned off, changing fans on/off temp, pair valve on/off, and B-King gauges on when flashing it's ecu as a Busa's (as only the bin files are different).

I'm still hoping Johnny Cheese can explain more about the Busa's timing in Ecu Editor.
As I've said before, we know he knows what he's doing when it comes to dyno tuning.

 

[Johnnycheese]

sixpack if there were timing restrictions you would see something. Search old post on ECU editor and Petrik stated on a Gen 2 there is no timing restiction.give me a minute something is weird.

 

[sixpack577]

sixpack if there were timing restrictions you would see something. Search old post on ECU editor and Petrik stated on a Gen 2 there is no timing restiction.give me a minute something is weird.

OK
Thank you sir

 

[POWERHOUSE]

This is from Petrik's Gen 2 thread, posted by Greg way back when:

How do I edit the ignition tables?
By simply opening the ignition table, you will get a message stating group 3 tables are now placed across all gears. This has the same effect that a TRE would have in that you get 5th gear timing across all gears, which can be better for low rpm low throttle conditions where you get increased timing. Wide open throttle high rpm conditions the tables are all the same anyhow. There are 2 buttons you can select at the top of the screen TPS MS0 (this is the normal ignition map you would want to edit) and TPS MS1 (this is the secondary ignition map that becomes active when you break the ground signal on pin 58). The numbers in the table represent degrees Before Top Center. To increase a cell or group of cells by 1 degree use the + button, to decrease a cell or group of cells use the - key. How much should you add or take away? That should only be answered by a skilled tuner with vast engine tuning knowledge on a dyno. Failure to understand what you are doing here can be very expensive.

 

[Dennis]

This is from Petrik's Gen 2 thread, posted by Greg way back when:

How do I edit the ignition tables?
By simply opening the ignition table, you will get a message stating group 3 tables are now placed across all gears. This has the same effect that a TRE would have in that you get 5th gear timing across all gears, which can be better for low rpm low throttle conditions where you get increased timing. Wide open throttle high rpm conditions the tables are all the same anyhow. There are 2 buttons you can select at the top of the screen TPS MS0 (this is the normal ignition map you would want to edit) and TPS MS1 (this is the secondary ignition map that becomes active when you break the ground signal on pin 58). The numbers in the table represent degrees Before Top Center. To increase a cell or group of cells by 1 degree use the + button, to decrease a cell or group of cells use the - key. How much should you add or take away? That should only be answered by a skilled tuner with vast engine tuning knowledge on a dyno. Failure to understand what you are doing here can be very expensive.

You can see the timing differences by gear in a stock map in Woolich. No doubt the gears are different, but as stated they are the same at higher rpm and throttle opening cells.

 

[sixpack577]

So, kind of the same effect, but I have been stating it incorrectly.
Instead of a lower rpm timing restriction being placed on 1st through 4th in the stock bin file,
after the ecu is flashed, the timing is simply increased at lower rpms, by Ecu Editor's smart TRE feature.
Making all gears use 5th gear timing.
The most recent version of Ecu Editor has the "Smart TRE" option, which was previously a box to check to "remove gear limiters", which accomplished the same.
So, to someone not paying attention(such as myself), it makes the lower timing restriction idea conceavable, wrong as it is.

I apollogise to all for spreading the misconception of a lower timing restriction. As opposed to, well, a Smart TRE.
Jonnny Cheese, and Dennis, thank you for helping clearing that up.

 

[Mythos]

It is a simple copy/paste of their opening rate from 1st/5th gear, to 2, 3, 4, and 6th.

That seems odd that they would have optimal flies open rate in first gear but not in 6th?? Then again, the flies opening late in first gear can be where it takes you by surprise the most...and also the most often-- as you bank into a hard right hand turn from a stop light and juice it. I wish we could get rid of the flies altogether but flashing them open at all rpm reduces performance, hey?

 

[sixpack577]

I removed the stp's years ago before Ecu Editor was available.
At lower rpms the bike was very sluggish, and at higher rpms acceleration was slightly improved. It was a trade off, and the bike overall would not have been any quicker through the 1/4, or longer, and likely slower.
Even with a good dyno tune and the stp's removed, it's been said that there is no improvement.
Smith said that anything above 94% open caused turbulence, and performance loss.
It's not worth removing them.

 

[Dennis]

So, kind of the same effect, but I have been stating it incorrectly.
Instead of a lower rpm timing restriction being placed on 1st through 4th in the stock bin file,
after the ecu is flashed, the timing is simply increased at lower rpms, by Ecu Editor's smart TRE feature.
Making all gears use 5th gear timing.
The most recent version of Ecu Editor has the "Smart TRE" option, which was previously a box to check to "remove gear limiters", which accomplished the same.
So, to someone not paying attention(such as myself), it makes the lower timing restriction idea conceavable, wrong as it is.

I apollogise to all for spreading the misconception of a lower timing restriction. As opposed to, well, a Smart TRE.
Jonnny Cheese, and Dennis, thank you for helping clearing that up.

I actually wouldn't say you were wrong. Stock, timing is less at part throttle, lower rpms. Call it less, call it a restriction, whatever ...

You and I had the discussion some time back about the effect of the "TRE" flash characteristics. I don't see any improvement in 1/4 mile times because I don't use that part of the map.

At the end of the day, lots of guys like the modified timing after the flash.

Oh, another thing. My buddy bought a Busa and we discovered the flies are out of it. These Busas are so consistent that we can make direct comparisons of one to the other, adjusting expected performance for weight, DA, gearing, 60' and the like. His bike performs exactly as we would expect a Busa to perform with the flies in. Again, we really aren't using the low throttle, low rpm portion of the map. Conclusion - not worth doing.

 

[sixpack577]

Thank you Dennis
Your imput is always based on hard numbers and real world consinstant testing.
Valuable and appreciated info that we can all learn from.