Engine build for turbo/supercharger

Busa3Fan said:
What would you do to your Gen 3 engine to handle the extra power from a turbo / supercharger kit?

All Gen 2 engine performance parts fit Gen 3 engine?

Or they need to be custom made at this moment?
Click to expand...
Hi. Like I said use a Gen 1 block put in stainless steel intake vales and Inconal exhaust all 1mm larger turbo cams Carrill rods some use a better crank. In the trans get a HD output shaft output shaft support by Robinsons Industry with a bilit lower 1st gear. Pistons ??????
 
Busa3Fan said:
What would you do to your Gen 3 engine to handle the extra power from a turbo / supercharger kit?

All Gen 2 engine performance parts fit Gen 3 engine?

Or they need to be custom made at this moment?
Click to expand...

The question is how much power do you want to make or what kind of speeds do you want to run?

99% could probably get by with a stock engine but if you want to make over 300+ may as well do it all while it’s apart.
 
Busa3Fan said:
Supercharger - 100 octane - pump gas
Click to expand...
well... TTS says that they have a kit(intercooler) that will provide sufficient cooling for 370HP on PUMP....... i guess that depends on your definition of sufficient becuase its NEVER been tested in a mile long pull or any land speed testing. This doesnt seem to concern other people though.... maybe u could do the testing? As far as the motor goes you are probably gonna wanna do a basic forged motor.... pistons/rods/springs/studs.... and you are gonna be at about 4000ish bucks alll in to completely forge the motor.... minus the crank(the crank takes about 700HP... not needed)... For what you want.. u dont have to send the cases out to be machined for 1/2 inch studs................................. ORRRRRRR u could do a a a spacer motor with a top end kit that drops compression in preparation for boost. It dpeneds how committed you are.... its easy to spend alot of money. For 370HP i wouldnt realistically leave a stock motor in it. You are asking for trouble. With a forged motor... u could sleep alot better.
 
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Busa3Fan said:
Street bike

Some wots from time to time

372 bhp :)
Click to expand...
I don’t think anyone has really pushed stock Gen-3 internals but old thinking is typically 320-350hp before rods check out and 400 for pistons. Many thought titanium valves would be an issue but many have run them over 400hp without issue so it’s the valve springs you would want to watch.

You’ll need to research the supercharger setup and what kind of intercooler they are using? Can it keep up with repeated runs or top end pulls? Unfortunately you may end up being the Guinea pig if you want to make 370+. Then again, depending on temps and intercooler it may not be able to handle that on pump gas. Might have to run race fuel for safety.

If you’re pulling the motor to lower compression or beaf it up, may as well spend the extra $$$ and build it all for more than you need first time around.
 
No need to go to a Gen 1 block. Keep your block.
Keep valves oem size, just swap to stainless, put heavy duty springs in the head.
The valves and springs are a must for sure. The remaining is dependant on how much you wanna push. If you're going beyond 15psi I'd definitely do the pistons and rods.
Back cutting the trans is really a good idea if you are going that far. If you are taking it to the strip and launching it off the 2 step, then do the HD output shaft on the trans. If you're just street riding and roll racing, then don't waste your money on it as it's not needed.
Your crank is fine, you don't need to upgrade it. Lots of huge hp bikes running the stock crank (me included).
Keep it simple, lots of people will tell you that you need this and that, but alot of the time you don't. You just need to know exactly what YOU are gonna do with it and that will dictate what you need.
 
ColdBusa said:
No need to go to a Gen 1 block. Keep your block.
Keep valves oem size, just swap to stainless, put heavy duty springs in the head.
The valves and springs are a must for sure. The remaining is dependant on how much you wanna push. If you're going beyond 15psi I'd definitely do the pistons and rods.
Back cutting the trans is really a good idea if you are going that far. If you are taking it to the strip and launching it off the 2 step, then do the HD output shaft on the trans. If you're just street riding and roll racing, then don't waste your money on it as it's not needed.
Your crank is fine, you don't need to upgrade it. Lots of huge hp bikes running the stock crank (me included).
Keep it simple, lots of people will tell you that you need this and that, but alot of the time you don't. You just need to know exactly what YOU are gonna do with it and that will dictate what you need.
Click to expand...
he street rides it.... hence my harping on the air/air intercooler in the blower kit he is considering. A good turbo kit is always worth its weight in gold and u cant get any better than a kit with a 2 year warranty(RCC). The intercooler in the RCC kit on pump gas has been tested to death. pump gas and that air/water intercooler truly is the gold standard.
 
ColdBusa said:
No need to go to a Gen 1 block. Keep your block.
Keep valves oem size, just swap to stainless, put heavy duty springs in the head.
The valves and springs are a must for sure. The remaining is dependant on how much you wanna push. If you're going beyond 15psi I'd definitely do the pistons and rods.
Back cutting the trans is really a good idea if you are going that far. If you are taking it to the strip and launching it off the 2 step, then do the HD output shaft on the trans. If you're just street riding and roll racing, then don't waste your money on it as it's not needed.
Your crank is fine, you don't need to upgrade it. Lots of huge hp bikes running the stock crank (me included).
Keep it simple, lots of people will tell you that you need this and that, but alot of the time you don't. You just need to know exactly what YOU are gonna do with it and that will dictate what you need.
Click to expand...
Thank you big time for your message!

What pistons/rods/springs/studs/valves should I get and from where?
 
Busa3Fan said:
Thank you big time for your message!

What pistons/rods/springs/studs/valves should I get and from where?
Click to expand...
Hey Busa,
There's lots of options and people will recommend different brands for different reasons. I'm going to recommend a brand and for sure someone will chime in and say x brand is better. But in all reality for what you are going to use it for, you can't go wrong with any of them.
Pistons I'd go with Wossner 9:1 turbo pistons. They are stout, built well and take a beating with no problem.
Rods, I'd go with the same brand... Wossner.
For valve springs go with APE valve spring (65 lb springs)
For studs I'd just go with an APE stud kit. No need to go 1/2". Just go with the stock 3/8" size. Make sure you order washers as well (explained in the info section on them as gen 2s washers don't come off the oem head studs)
For Valves just go with APE stainless steel valves, or Vance and Hines oem size. Kibblewhite also makes nice valves and I've used them. You could get fancy with inconel but definitely not needed.
One more item is a cometic head gasket (oem thickness).
If you're in Canada, I'd just order the whole lot from Richard at RCC Turbos as he typically has most of the list. May have to wait for a couple items. If in the US, just go through Schnitz racing. They have it all.

Now this is of course if you're going to do it all yourself. If you have someone do it for you, then you need to be clear with them with what you want in the list. As for a builder, I'd send mine to DME Racing If it were me. Mine, I built myself as there's nobody near me to do it.
 
Also, the above info would be the least damaging financially...lol. You could go all out and get all sorts of custom one off stuff built, drill the cases for bigger studs, different valves, guides etc...
But for what you're using it for, this is the the easiest and reliable approach.
 
ColdBusa said:
Hey Busa,
There's lots of options and people will recommend different brands for different reasons. I'm going to recommend a brand and for sure someone will chime in and say x brand is better. But in all reality for what you are going to use it for, you can't go wrong with any of them.
Pistons I'd go with Wossner 9:1 turbo pistons. They are stout, built well and take a beating with no problem.
Rods, I'd go with the same brand... Wossner.
For valve springs go with APE valve spring (65 lb springs)
For studs I'd just go with an APE stud kit. No need to go 1/2". Just go with the stock 3/8" size. Make sure you order washers as well (explained in the info section on them as gen 2s washers don't come off the oem head studs)
For Valves just go with APE stainless steel valves, or Vance and Hines oem size. Kibblewhite also makes nice valves and I've used them. You could get fancy with inconel but definitely not needed.
One more item is a cometic head gasket (oem thickness).
If you're in Canada, I'd just order the whole lot from Richard at RCC Turbos as he typically has most of the list. May have to wait for a couple items. If in the US, just go through Schnitz racing. They have it all.

Now this is of course if you're going to do it all yourself. If you have someone do it for you, then you need to be clear with them with what you want in the list. As for a builder, I'd send mine to DME Racing If it were me. Mine, I built myself as there's nobody near me to do it.
Click to expand...
I live in Europe and for the moment I don’t have a builder for this project.

Thank you for your detailed message!

There is a motogp mechanic that can install everything for me but he can just install things, he has no experience in building forced induction motorcycles.

That mechanic is close to me and he is a top professional that I trust.

Except this forum which is by far the nicest community I found on the internet, it seems that most people I meet or discuss with about my Busa project just want to make the sale (parts, installation, etc.).

I would love also to see RCC turbo kit for Gen 3 Busa but probably just in 2023 there will be one.

Also maybe people with TTS kits on their Gen 3 Busas will start sharing their feedback on the kit and how the engines hold up.
 
ColdBusa said:
If you're interested, I've got quite a lengthy build thread with photos and exactly what I used for reference in the Turbo section.
Click to expand...
I will check for sure, thanks!

ColdBusa said:
Also, the above info would be the least damaging financially...lol. You could go all out and get all sorts of custom one off stuff built, drill the cases for bigger studs, different valves, guides etc...
But for what you're using it for, this is the the easiest and reliable approach.
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I am looking for.

When I started this idea with supercharging my Busa it seems very simple:

- small price for the supercharger kit

- no engine mods as TTS said on its website

- Woolich autotune on TTS provided ecu map

Now it seems that is not that simple as there isn’t too much testing and Woolich autotune on the TTS provided ecu map is not the perfect solution.

I can install the kit and blow the engine once but I don’t want each week to repair the engine.

I prefer to invest more money and have a bike that I can ride.
 
Bumblebee said:
From everything I've read, the engine in the gen 3 is built more robust than the other generations, how much internal work would it need?

From what I read it almost seems like Suzuki built it for boost.
Click to expand...
manufacturers use the cheapest garbage they can get away with... its not that easy. Maybe a little boost... but no manufacturer uses rods and pistons ready for any type of big boost... (double digit boost levels..)
 
TucoSalimonca said:
manufacturers use the cheapest garbage they can get away with... its not that easy. Maybe a little boost... but no manufacturer uses rods and pistons ready for any type of big boost... (double digit boost levels..)
Click to expand...
Yep, and at the moment Woolich unlock doesn't have the option to change the 1bar map sensor to a 3 or 4 bar yet, so I'm confused on how the ECU knows how much fuel to add when under boost. I wouldn't touch any boosted option until Woolich adds a boosted option for the gen3 or you manage to get a MoTec ECU swap.
 
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