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I wanted to get your thoughts and opinions....

I may be getting into business that deals with large amounts of cash. Local PD suggested a CCW, but also says we can carry at the business, they actually suggested we be armed(un-officially of course)Ideally we will be trying to get a CCW, but until them the plan is to carry a pistol "in the office.......and keep another firearm within reach.


How do you guys feels about shotguns vs. pistols for defense situations? most likely stored under a counter or next to/inside a money safe?
 
I have always believed that the handgun is to used to fight your way to your shotgun or AR-15. I shoot 2-5 thousand rounds of handgun ammunition a year so I get more practice than most. If I was going into a close quarters shooting and I could only have one weapon it would be a shotgun that was set up properly for tactical engagement. My second choice would be a AR-15 in a very compact configuration (you have to consider surroundings and adjacent rooms with this set up). Obviously the Handgun is the most convenient to pack around all day( and I do every day all day) and is is the best weapon for that job. So, the answer to your question is that you need both a shotgun and pistol to be properly prepared. Get yourself and your staff trained and learn the laws of your state. The last thing you want is for the thug to shoot you with your own gun. If you pull it you best be using it.
 
I wanted to get your thoughts and opinions....

I may be getting into business that deals with large amounts of cash. Local PD suggested a CCW, but also says we can carry at the business, they actually suggested we be armed(un-officially of course)Ideally we will be trying to get a CCW, but until them the plan is to carry a pistol "in the office.......and keep another firearm within reach.


How do you guys feels about shotguns vs. pistols for defense situations? most likely stored under a counter or next to/inside a money safe?

Get an AR with hollow points, You get 25 rounds per mag, more than your pistols or shotguns. The side by side mags for fast reloads are nice too so you would virtually have 50 rounds to burn on some unlucky bastard. Over compensation is better than being SOL if something does go down.

One blast from a shotgun though usually does the job or makes them rethink their decision...
 
I belive JGGuns has the right answer. Sounds like you are concerned that someone might try to rob/invade at your work. I believe (but I'd certainly check with an attorney in your state first) that as long as you are on private property you can have pretty much any gun you want - but remember, if you every use one, you are gonna be open to a zillion lawsuits - and it would be interesting to see how much your liability insurance is going to cost you I'd get a quote before I started this business.

Given that most 'events' happen in the span of seconds, the 'point' person is going to need a pistol that he can bring to bear quickly, but having some shotguns within quick reach in strategic places will give you the best defense. The defense has the tactical advantage once the shooting starts and it's hard to get past a competent shotgunner in enclosed spaces.

I would do my best to make sure I only had CCW's working for me. There is SOME treatment of liability if they all went thru a background check and were properly trained.
 
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It sounds to me like you might be somewhat inexperienced with firearms. Please excuse me if that is an inaccurate assumption. If it's true, you should really take some firearms course before doing anything. A gun is worthless if you're not accustomed to using it.

With that said, I highly suggest a pump action shotgun for the office. There is a great deal of intimidation factor with firearms. In your place of business, you have every right to brandish and rack the gun if you feel threatened. The sound of a pump action being racked is like nothing else. If the threat is the least bit timid, that will send them packing without resorting to a single shot and potential loss of life. On the flip side, if you do have to take a shot, a shotgun is far more accurate at close range, especially when your adrenaline is pumping.

And I agree with the others, get a CCW. They're cheap and easy to obtain assuming you don't have a criminal background. It might take a few months with all the bureaucratic red tape though.

Lastly, you might want to look into getting licensed as a security guard. This would allow you to open carry when performing official company actions. I'm not sure about all the details, but from what I have seen, there's a small fee and a 30-40 hour training course. Considering that you would rather deter would-be thieves, this might be the best course of action.
 
Lastly, you might want to look into getting licensed as a security guard. This would allow you to open carry when performing official company actions. I'm not sure about all the details, but from what I have seen, there's a small fee and a 30-40 hour training course. Considering that you would rather deter would-be thieves, this might be the best course of action.

We really need to know what state you are in. Some states allow open carry with no permit and others will allow it if you a only a CCW permit. Your first action should be to learn the laws of your state so that you know what your options are.
 
We really need to know what state you are in. Some states allow open carry with no permit and others will allow it if you a only a CCW permit. Your first action should be to learn the laws of your state so that you know what your options are.

Good point. I'm in Florida and I tend to forget that open carry is permitted in a great many places.

JGGUNS said:
If you pull it you best be using it.

Oh, and I forgot...AMEN to this! (Save the racking of the shotgun in rare circumstances.)
 
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Yep, I'm in Mississippi and we have a very good "Castle Law". Basically, if you own it or rent it then you can defend it with no legal recourse for the aggressor or their family. If they threaten you on your property you have the protected right to defend it by any means.
 
I have always believed that the handgun is to used to fight your way to your shotgun or AR-15. I shoot 2-5 thousand rounds of handgun ammunition a year so I get more practice than most. If I was going into a close quarters shooting and I could only have one weapon it would be a shotgun that was set up properly for tactical engagement. My second choice would be a AR-15 in a very compact configuration (you have to consider surroundings and adjacent rooms with this set up). Obviously the Handgun is the most convenient to pack around all day( and I do every day all day) and is is the best weapon for that job. So, the answer to your question is that you need both a shotgun and pistol to be properly prepared. Get yourself and your staff trained and learn the laws of your state. The last thing you want is for the thug to shoot you with your own gun. If you pull it you best be using it.

I Agree 100%
 
Yep, I'm in Mississippi and we have a very good "Castle Law". Basically, if you own it or rent it then you can defend it with no legal recourse for the aggressor or their family. If they threaten you on your property you have the protected right to defend it by any means.

Florida just recently extended the Castle Doctrine to your personal vehicle. If only we could get open carry, I would be completely happy.
 
I agree with the well known quote by I believe Clint Smith that JGGUNS mentioned. But there are a number of things to consider, and no one gun is the best choice for all situations. Also you need to be aware of the environment you will be in when you may have to deploy your firearm.

Is there the possibility of being surprised and the attacker is on top of you while in the building of your business? Will you be transporting money in a vehicle? Will there be customers in your lobby at your business? Thats just a few questions the come to mind right away.

Also, this old adage of racking a shotgun is going to payoff in a big way is a sure way to get killed. Any dedicated criminal will not be deterred by the sound of a shotgun racking, and frankly by them hearing that you may have given up some tactical advantage by letting them know you're armed. With that said, a shotgun is a very good weapon for moderate distances....for close quarter combat it is a poor choice for many (those not well versed in weapon retention) like any long arm, as it lends itself to you becoming disarmed. Also for distances that are outside of 25 yards, you need to be careful if using OObuck. Errant pellets can miss their intended target and hit people down range. You are civilly liable for all those rounds that leave your shotgun. The spread pattern on most 12 guage OObuck rounds is 1" per yard. So your spread at 25 yards is about 25". If you aren't perfect with your shot placement, you could have pellets hitting things you don't want to hit. Also at up close you have to worry about over penetration, particularly if the shot is up close. Same with a rifle, over penetration is a potential problem. You can get frangible rounds for the rifle, I don't like them, but they can be helpful in combating over penetration. If the round over penetrates and hits a bystander, hang tight in court. You likely won't be charged criminally, but a wrongful death suit will be costly for your business, and personal life.

Also, you need to know how to fight (hand to hand), and even use a knife. You don't need to be an expert with either, and certainly don't deploy a knife without some basic training, as a knife fighter may take it away from you and shove it up your arse. Since combat, certainly when it starts as close combat, can become really close if you are caught flat footed. So you may need to fight to put some distance between you an the attacker before you can engage with a firearm. Being able to fight with your fists and knives is helpful. A knife with a double edge blade held in a fist in blade down angle allows you to punch with your fist and stab and slash. A very basic knife technique.

On the training note, get some on close quarter combat with a handgun. There are techniques to keep the gun in your possession instead of being disarmed, and still be accurate. If you are gun savy, or are willing to train a lot, having a semi-auto handgun is a good choice. If you are not willing to train alot, then I suggest a revolver for your handgun. Revolvers are just about stone reliable, and come in effective calibers. You lose a little in the way of capacity from an semi-auto, but if a semi-auto has a malfunction and you can't clear it, it will be worthless. If you go with a semi-auto, you need to practice malfunction clearance drills until you can do them in your sleep. You have 3 basic malfunctions that can occur, fail to return to battery, stove pipe, and double feed. The first two are pretty easy to clear quickly. The double feed is a little more difficult, and requires more practice. Also, the quickest way to clear a double feed (not the only way) is to have a second magazine, so if you carry a semi-auto you should always carry at least one extra mag, if not for the extra rounds, but to speed the malfunction clearance.

Sorry for the long diatribe. Actually it is very short for what really needs to be considered for what you are wanting to do. If it were me I would seek out the advice of someone who is an expert on this topic. Even better if they provide training.

For me in your situation, I would have multiple weapons on me, and available to me.

Also, wear body armor.....

Good luck!
 
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Ghille,

I'm not suggesting that you rack it as a sound deterrent only. Unless you have one in the chamber, you need to rack it anyway. I'm simply suggesting that if you're going to get a shotgun, a pump action has an added benefit of being both visually and audibly deterring. I wasn't suggesting that anyone just start randomly racking the gun without in the absence of the possible intruder.

Although I have known of cases where home invasions have been stopped cold by that sound.
 
Ghille,

I'm not suggesting that you rack it as a sound deterrent only. Unless you have one in the chamber, you need to rack it anyway. I'm simply suggesting that if you're going to get a shotgun, a pump action has an added benefit of being both visually and audibly deterring. I wasn't suggesting that anyone just start randomly racking the gun without in the absence of the possible intruder.

Although I have known of cases where home invasions have been stopped cold by that sound.

Yeah, my comment might have been a little harsh, sorry about that. I will agree that a less committed arsehole likely will think again about what he is doing when he hears the sound of a shotgun getting racked.

I read this and hear this a lot from the RV community (racking a shotgun to scare), usually comprised of old folks that write things to make be believe they don't have what it takes to harm another person with a firearm. Some even have given others advice to rack an empty shotgun to scare people away.
 
No, I understand where you're coming from completely. If you aren't willing to shoot to kill, you should call 911 and hide in a closet.
 
I have used a pump remington 870 several times at work and I must agree, the visiblity and sound will definetly get the attention of local thugs and wannabe criminals, but I would most definetly agree that for the determined crook and experience criminal it probably wouldn't deter him/her. When it comes to defense and shooting... there is no substitute for training. Muscle memory is the real deal holyfield so to speak. I am the assistant team leader of our SWAt team and I cannot stress it enough. Your situation may not be as drastic as other when it comes to tactics and training but I've seen first hand what happens under stress and how the body and mind reacts to it. In the end you will shoot how you train, should it come down to it. So my suggestion would be use a handgun you can have readily accessible. The fact that the entire situation will probably be over in a matter of seconds is what I would suspect given your description. Practice drawing the weapon from wherever you will be carrying it. As far as a secondary weapon goes, I say it won't hurt, but have it in a place that you can tactically retreat to if need be, like an office that has a good secure door so you can buy yourself time. We have always trained that the fastest reload is an entirely different weapon that you can transition to. For that reason our handguns are secondary, but again that is for an entirely different set of circumstances=situations dictate tactics. Just my humble opinion. Oh yeah, always always have situatiuonal awareness. Action is always faster than reaction !and no matter what, money isn't worth your life....especially if it isn't your money.
 
All good points, I personally would prefer a shot gun over a pistol in a work situation.

Like someone else mentioned you should go take some training classes. Well worth it and you will not only learn your weapon and types of ammo but also about the laws in your state. At least that's how it was from me when I took a class.
I would also say to go to the gun range about every 4- 6 months just to keep up with your skills. Oh and one more thing.....Clean and maintain you weapons properly and you should be good to go.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.
 
Get a couple of everything... few shotguns, couple of 1911s, couple airweights for the pockets, axe handles are great in the corners, commercial chile spray, a quality combat folding knife for the waistband. All have a purpose and best use...

Only thing I'd stay away from self defense wise are rifles (not because there not effective) because you can in advertantly shoot a kid sleeping in his bed 6 blocks away.
 
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