Hahn racecraft stage one build for gen 2

[POWERHOUSE]

exhaust severely restricted?

BINGO !!!!! FIRST problem solved. I always disliked full exhausts on turbos, they rob power somewhat. The canister on the full exhaust supplied with this kit by Hahn had to be modified in order to release the severe back pressure. I am not sure if this was done purposely by Hahn to restrict the turbo to 4 pounds . . . if so, it was an ill-conceived idea that was not well thought out, nor was it ever tested, obviously. You can get more air into a motor, but you also have to get it out to make the power. But is it even possible for a full exhaust on a turbo to rob 50 rwhp?

NEXT PROBLEM: The first pull after modifying the exhaust had the boost gauge climbing rapidly towards ten pounds; I had to shut the run down at 8,000 rpm, where I saw 230 rwhp. WTF! This thing has a 5 pound actuator on it, and one thing is for sure - if someone purchased this kit with a dump pipe for a Gen 2, they would be building a hand-grenade. So, knowing that a 5 pound actuator is the lowest one available, what do we do now, to keep this bike from becoming another statistic?lease: And what do we do about the plenum, another issue I haven't even got to yet?

One thing is for sure: it suks having to do R&D on a turbo system that should have been fully developed four years ago.

 

[smithabusa]

I would see no reason to sell them through your shop Frank. RCC only and no more having to engineer the kit yourself

 

[black diamond busa]

Wow that sucks

 

[POWERHOUSE]

Wow that sucks

Sure does. I thought we were free and clear, but there I was with a kit that was now over-boosting on a 12.5:1 motor. And I can tell you that POWERHOUSE will never take a customer's cash and pat him on the back and send him down the road while our fingers are crossed, thats just not how we roll. The next thing we had to deal with was this boost issue and trying to make the hp while being conservative with the timing and afr. As I said, we did solve the over-boosting problem and ended up custom-mapping the bike twice because of everything that went on. And the ecu was edited a number of times to deal with certain timing and rpm issues; as I said, we just cannot let a bike go out the door that we damn well know is going to blow up. And to answer a question that came up in the other thread - a set price was given to the customer for the install and tune. The extra time spent making this combination work on this bike was not charged to the customer. After all, its not his fault, and its not my fault. Why do I still sell Hahn? Because they actually do make a decent Gen 1 Stage 1 kit at a decent price. I had no idea that we would be the first shop to install one of their Gen 2 kits - in 2012! Like anything else, sometimes you get what you pay for.

 

[vailes3705]

I have been seriously considering a Hahn kit for my 06...After reading this thread, I may reconsider and just stick with nitrous.

 

[POWERHOUSE]

I have been seriously considering a Hahn kit for my 06...After reading this thread, I may reconsider and just stick with nitrous.

The Hahn for the Gen 1 is actually fine, it depends on what you want to do with your bike. If you intend on staying Stage One, you could still consider the Hahn. If you intend on going over 300 rwhp, something with an external gate would be better. RCC is our top-selling kit for many reasons . . .

 

[Pit Bull 13]

Reading stuff like this makes me glad I went RCC. sorry to hear about the headaches.. I hope Hahn is paying you to fix there mistakes

 

[BIG CC RACING]

using an internal wastegate actuator on a high revving motorcycle engine is not recommended as it will boost creep. I only offer external gate set ups & even then if some peoples fab is not correct it will boost creep.

I dont offer a stage 1 kit for Gen 2 Busa's, its fools money with the C/R being too high.

One thing people can try who have this issue is to remove the turbo housing with the actuator & hand port the inside better & to also increase the actuator hole size diameter. Just marker pen round its sealing area & you can see how much you can open it by.

I fitted a Hahn to a Gen 1 with a barrel spacer in it & after putting a stronger fuel pump to the FMU it worked for years flawlessly. Good basic cheap kit but I would not do it on its own pump & not on a stock motor because the boost was still slightly too high.

 

[vailes3705]

This may be a dumb question but is "boost creep" when the boost is creeping up and over boosting, or creeping down as in leaking out rather that going into the plenum?

 

[smithabusa]

creep up in boost, as in the wastegate isn't sized appropriately and can't let enough exhaust gas bypass the turbine to keep boost at the actuator setpoint.

 

[vailes3705]

Oh ok. Thanks.

 

[POWERHOUSE]

using an internal wastegate actuator on a high revving motorcycle engine is not recommended as it will boost creep. I only offer external gate set ups & even then if some peoples fab is not correct it will boost creep.

The answer to this with the Hahn kit - especially on a Gen 2 - is an external wastegate with a 4# spring.

I dont offer a stage 1 kit for Gen 2 Busa's, its fools money with the C/R being too high.

Again, although when dealing with the Gen 2 it is preferable to install the turbo on a a built engine, they work just fine with an external gate . . . we have installed and tuned several RCC kits on stock-motored Gen 2s with zero issues.

One thing people can try who have this issue is to remove the turbo housing with the actuator & hand port the inside better & to also increase the actuator hole size diameter. Just marker pen round its sealing area & you can see how much you can open it by.

In response to boost spiking issues, Hahn Racecraft now ports every Mitsubishi turbo with an internal gate. This becomes even more critical when using a dump pipe, as the full exhaust has the effect of damping spiking issues somewhat due to backpressure.

I fitted a Hahn to a Gen 1 with a barrel spacer in it & after putting a stronger fuel pump to the FMU it worked for years flawlessly. Good basic cheap kit but I would not do it on its own pump & not on a stock motor because the boost was still slightly too high.

As I state earlier in this thread, the Stage One Hahn kit does not have any issues when installed on a Gen 1 with a stock motor and the standard fuel pump that is supplied with the kit. It is good entry-level kit for those who cannot afford to build their engines and install an RCC Ultra kit. POWERHOUSE has been doing RCC, Velocity/RPM, Hahn and the occasional Mr. Turbo kits for over a decade. As upgrades to the Hahn kits, we offer stainless steel head pipes and external wastegate modifications, improvements that resolve the main issues these kits have.

 

[Road Weazel]

I dont know of any Dyno's In WI

My buddy James Monson is the engine guru at Fuel Moto in Little Chute, WI. They've got a dyno and might be able to hook you up...
All the best,
Weazel

 

[Pit Bull 13]

is this build done?

 

[masterblaster]

Highly regarded tuner I might add, highly recommended.

My buddy James Monson is the engine guru at Fuel Moto in Little Chute, WI. They've got a dyno and might be able to hook you up...
All the best,
Weazel

 

[POWERHOUSE]

is this build done?

Brandon, this bike was delivered to the customer last month. It ended up making 220 on pump and the customer loved it!

 

[pwall97]

yes send me info thanks

 

[OZZYBUSA]

Amazing how true that it about some suzuki dealers.
Here is a personal experience that I had with a big suzuki dealership and with their number 1 mechanic.

I remember a year or more ago I was having some problems trying to get my busa to start... it kept feeling like it was losing power (a bit like a low charged battery or similar type of feeling and just not enough turning power).

After checking the battery and finally deciding to renew the battery I still had the same problems...too hard to start .... not enough power !!
So I thought ok maybe its the starter motor...after all the busa is a late '99 model and at the time was more than 10 years old so it was feasible to think that just maybe the starter motor is on its way out!

Having taken the starter motor out and having it thoroughly inspected by a qualified electrician.....STARTER MOTOR was in great condition (torque wise -perfect)......

keep with me I'm about to get to the suzuki dealer.............

By this stage I was getting a little frustrated ....rightfully so I think ......

After a little more research I headed straight for the starter clutch...since '99 and '00 models are notorious for having starter clutch problems.

I decided to take out the starter clutch assembly and have it "tested" by a suzuki dealership not far from where I live.
So into the service department I go and hand over the starter clutch assembly.
The head mechanic (as he was referred) then tested the unit and returned to say that "I can't see anything wrong with it ...its working perfectly"

So I thank him (...later I regret this!) and return home to refit the starter clutch....
After refitting I still have the same problem....feels like something is trying to slip and a feeling of not enough starting power...hmmm.....

As it turns out I decide to take off the starter clutch again and get a SECOND opinion...best thing I ever could have done........

I take the disassembled starter clutch to a little motorcycle shop not too far from the big suzuki dealership.
Showing the middle-aged gent the starter clutch he immediately draws my attention to the shape of the roller bearings and how knocked out of shape they have become and says to me that this starter clutch is "junk" ...go buy a new starter clutch, reassemble and your problem will be fixed.

I purchased a brand new genuine starter clutch from suzuki dealership (grrr!!), then fitted it and yes ...problem fixed !!!

Why couldn't the head mechanic at a suzuki dealership have identified this problem which was so obvious (when explained to me by the knowledgeable gent).

It would have saved me alot of time and frustration..........

I can say this though.....

It doesn't always matter where you go to get your advice as long as you go to the right PERSON

Finding the right person is sometimes the most difficult part of the task but I can tell you from experience that when you get the right advise ...THE FIRST TIME...

This person is truly worth their weight in GOLD........

MORALE of the STORY.......don't always believe the first person you ask ..... do yourself a favor and get a second opinion......

...and Frank keep the posts coming they are very informative ...... I'm enjoying them immensely......

 

[BenHer]

Frank I know this bike is long gone but what was the nature of the restriction in the exhaust? I've got an RCC kit on the way that I was hoping to run through dual two brothers slip ons. At 1 3/4 times two they have the same area as the RCC pipe at 2 1/2 but maybe there's more to consider?

 

[POWERHOUSE]

Frank I know this bike is long gone but what was the nature of the restriction in the exhaust? I've got an RCC kit on the way that I was hoping to run through dual two brothers slip ons. At 1 3/4 times two they have the same area as the RCC pipe at 2 1/2 but maybe there's more to consider?

Back pressure kills turbos, period. Not knowing the configuration of your intended exhaust, I would strongly caution you. If your turbine outlet is 2 1/2" and you intend on "necking" it down to 1 3/4 for the sake of going into multiple mufflers, IMHO it is a mistake. You can hang 12 mufflers on the back and it will still be a mistake.