hard starting found problem, now what?
- Thread starter elmostro
- Start date
mike1180
Banned
On their website it says the 4 oz motorcycle product can all be added to 1 tank.
Red Line Oil: Fuel Additives
If you have a bigger bottle, I think you would be safe with 4 oz for the first tankful.
Red Line Oil: Fuel Additives
If you have a bigger bottle, I think you would be safe with 4 oz for the first tankful.
wow this thread reads like a typical DIY job... I was in the garage business for 30 years and this type of thing is always fun..
First a real description of the starting problem did not happen till post 64 or so.. All we got was "hard starting" with one spark plug that looke off tilt..
now we have a few guess that are right out of left field..
Clogged air filter causing issue on 1 plug.. : no way.. on a carburated motor? maybe, never on a FI motor with a common air box
Fuel pump: motor turns over "hard" no way the issue
Ignition system: same as above UNLESS the motor is kicking backards.. (simple check, pull plug coils and ground each, spin motor over..
and a few other shots in the dark that are pretty much impossible.. (plugged filters, injectors or any other fuel starvation issue)
When engines start hard, the first step is a start draw test (amperage required to spin motor over).. checked cold and hot.. (voltage is also needed)
When we find that the amperage is high (and sorry I do not have the specs for a normal system, they should be easy enough to come up with) you then have to work down the list to find the reason for the high starter draw.. (most home shops are not really equipped for this work BTW..)
For the home DIY guy.. (a shop already knows what to do and it is not exactly what is below)
While the motor is "turning over hard" pull the plugs and see how it turns over.. assuming that we are not loosing any coolant the motor should turn over but still sound somewhat labored if the starter is bad.. As you have already checked the battery, I would just make sure the cables are in good shape.. (Do a voltage drop from + battery to + starter, should be less than about .5V)
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES jump your bike to a car battery with a set of jumper cables.. the only thing you are going to accomplish is burning up some cables on the bike when the extra amperage becomes available to what I bet is a starter that is screwed up...
IF the voltage drop test from the battery + to starter + is more than around the .5V, you need to find out where it drops.. cable, solenoid etc... (and this is all assuming that the ground cables on the bike are in good shape)
good luck.. (I actually thought the thing was spinning over ok and not starting originally, my bad for not clarifiying issue first)
based on the facts you have given, I am going for a electrical issue.. could be cables, grounds, starter, solenoid or battery (not necessarily in that order)
First a real description of the starting problem did not happen till post 64 or so.. All we got was "hard starting" with one spark plug that looke off tilt..
now we have a few guess that are right out of left field..
Clogged air filter causing issue on 1 plug.. : no way.. on a carburated motor? maybe, never on a FI motor with a common air box
Fuel pump: motor turns over "hard" no way the issue
Ignition system: same as above UNLESS the motor is kicking backards.. (simple check, pull plug coils and ground each, spin motor over..
and a few other shots in the dark that are pretty much impossible.. (plugged filters, injectors or any other fuel starvation issue)
When engines start hard, the first step is a start draw test (amperage required to spin motor over).. checked cold and hot.. (voltage is also needed)
When we find that the amperage is high (and sorry I do not have the specs for a normal system, they should be easy enough to come up with) you then have to work down the list to find the reason for the high starter draw.. (most home shops are not really equipped for this work BTW..)
For the home DIY guy.. (a shop already knows what to do and it is not exactly what is below)
While the motor is "turning over hard" pull the plugs and see how it turns over.. assuming that we are not loosing any coolant the motor should turn over but still sound somewhat labored if the starter is bad.. As you have already checked the battery, I would just make sure the cables are in good shape.. (Do a voltage drop from + battery to + starter, should be less than about .5V)
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES jump your bike to a car battery with a set of jumper cables.. the only thing you are going to accomplish is burning up some cables on the bike when the extra amperage becomes available to what I bet is a starter that is screwed up...
IF the voltage drop test from the battery + to starter + is more than around the .5V, you need to find out where it drops.. cable, solenoid etc... (and this is all assuming that the ground cables on the bike are in good shape)
good luck.. (I actually thought the thing was spinning over ok and not starting originally, my bad for not clarifiying issue first)
based on the facts you have given, I am going for a electrical issue.. could be cables, grounds, starter, solenoid or battery (not necessarily in that order)
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ok here what i did, have a spare batt in the garage went to auto zone bought some batt cables did a temp 24v mod. the bike started as soon i pressed the stater button, fast tried a couple of times, flawlles bike just started with no hasitation. thanks everybody for helping i need to do this mod, now i'm thinking of buying this kit but i dont want to remove the factory undertail, can i trimed to make it fit?
http://www.1st-to-the-finish-line.com/products/Descriptions/TBB-1324-System.html
i also found a front batt box but they want 129.00 just for the box, that is too much
http://www.1st-to-the-finish-line.com/products/Descriptions/TBB-1324-System.html
i also found a front batt box but they want 129.00 just for the box, that is too much
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well i think i have too much electronics on my bike and that is what s causing the problem, autoshifter, pc3, switchback mod the brighter ones, air compresor, dyno jet lcd screen, maybe my starter is going bad, but it wont hurt to do the mod and get some more life out of my starter. i checked all the wiring and electrical stuff and found nothing 2 weeks trying to figure out whats wrong with the bike i think that is enough. 24v mod is next, then i go from there, that is why my friend. thanks for your help and sharing your knowledge. love this forum 
mike1180
Banned
well i think i have too much electronics on my bike and that is what s causing the problem, autoshifter, pc3, switchback mod the brighter ones, air compresor, dyno jet lcd screen, maybe my starter is going bad, but it wont hurt to do the mod and get some more life out of my starter. i checked all the wiring and electrical stuff and found nothing 2 weeks trying to figure out whats wrong with the bike i think that is enough. 24v mod is next, then i go from there, that is why my friend. thanks for your help and sharing your knowledge. love this forum
Sometimes we have to do whatever we can to get back into the saddle.
It may not be the ultimate best solution but we get to go riding again!
Right choice given the above IMO
need to do this while cranking the motor over.. if you were... there is a big problem if it is reading 12.9 while starting..
You can just put + voltmeter lead to battery + and - voltmeter lead to the Starter + that will give you the actual drop without any math
well that is not the issue.. need amperage check on starter (likely problem is starter is toasting itself, busings wear out and as starter itself heats up, the armature rubs on the inside of the housing)
the 24v thing is a work around.. (double the voltage, cuts amp draw in half) but it may come back to haunt you when you least want it..
Oh what is battery voltage when the thing is not starting like it should? (cranking)
the 24v thing is a work around.. (double the voltage, cuts amp draw in half) but it may come back to haunt you when you least want it..
Oh what is battery voltage when the thing is not starting like it should? (cranking)
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yes is good but when the engine start to turn and don't get the juice to start the volts drop down to 11v as soon the engine try to start again go back up to 12.8
i can see the differnce in voltage changes while the bike is trying to start depending how the engine is tutrning over the voltage go up or down the slowest the lower when the engine start spining it go back to 12.8. i hope i didn't get you confuse.
i can see the differnce in voltage changes while the bike is trying to start depending how the engine is tutrning over the voltage go up or down the slowest the lower when the engine start spining it go back to 12.8. i hope i didn't get you confuse.
I guess i need to take the bike to the stealership, new starter relay, new starter, new plugs, 24v mod, checked all wiring everything checked good, i disconected all electronic stuff like power commander auto shifter and other things, red line fuel cleaner treatment, still this bike when hot the engine won't turn over. doubt ecm is bad. anybody know a good mech around me jacksonville florida please let me know, i just hate to take my bike to suzuki dealer. thanks
what is most likely going on is the starter is dragging inside the housing.. as things get hot and expand a bit, the armature drags on the field coils.. Odds are pretty good, you just need a fresh starter put on the thing..
There is always a possible engine condition that could cause this same issue but is really unlikely.. if the issue was the "solenoid" you would have a large voltage drop from the battery to the starter (on + cable) Bad battery cables or connections also cause a large voltage drop reading.. .5 is not bad at all.. 5V however would be..
If you able to, you can take the starter off, swap it with a good one and be on your way.. My guess is that thing really does not spin over great cold either..
There is always a possible engine condition that could cause this same issue but is really unlikely.. if the issue was the "solenoid" you would have a large voltage drop from the battery to the starter (on + cable) Bad battery cables or connections also cause a large voltage drop reading.. .5 is not bad at all.. 5V however would be..
If you able to, you can take the starter off, swap it with a good one and be on your way.. My guess is that thing really does not spin over great cold either..
roll that thing to a shop... time to start from ground zero and check it from battery to tailpipe..
It is really hard to diagnose over a keyboard to start with.. sometimes you can hear what is wrong (hard to do here) a lousy battery sounds a lot different than a motor that has a partial hydraulic issue..
Rather than throw tons of money at it, spend a few $$ and get a pro to take a peek at it..
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