Hard Starting - GI Pro / PCIII combo

[JusPlaynBob]

I have had a GI Pro /TRE, installed since September.
I have a pair of Carbon Muzzy slip on.s and a stock filter.

Using the GI-Pro MAP 5 as recommended, the bike has always started well, as usual.

A couple of weeks ago, I added a PCIII/R.
It was used... and was operating with a MAP downloaded from the PC website,
Full Yoshi Sys.w/ stock or KN filter.
The performance gains were immediately evident in mid and high rpm range.
(Much like an afterburner I expect)
However, it started poorly, needing many attempts 3 or 4 to get it to run.

I changed the MAP to a full Muzzy sys. w/ stock or KN filter.
Again it wouldn't, start well and was dumping pretty much, raw fuel through the system.

Once again I tried a new MAP.
This time a referencing Yoshi slip ons w/ stock or KN filter.
The bike again runs well, but still starts hard.

I can't seem to identify a pattern
For example, starting in neutral or in gear.
With or without a nudge from the throttle.

I haven't tried the stock bike MAP, but perhaps I should.
Nor have I leaned out the low RPM range button.

Getting it on a Dyno out here isn't particularly do-able,at least for a couple of months.
They aren't that plentiful.

I guess what I'm asking is,
Is anyone familiar with this type of condition?
Is there a tweak I should try?

I was thinking of trying a little drag racing at a local track this weekend and would like to see see how this goes.

Appreciate any thoughts or input.
Thanks
-Bob

 

[MET]

Since you tried to change the map, go to the next test. Disable the PCIII and see how the bike runs. It sounds like the PC is not saving the new map and the one that is in the PC is n good.

 

[JusPlaynBob]

Since you tried to change the map, go to the next test.  Disable the PCIII and see how the bike runs.  It sounds like the PC is not saving the new map and the one that is in the PC is n good.

I've unplugged it to check and the bike seems to start as normal.
Plugged it back in and it started as normal a few times.
Then slips back into it's old pattern.

I checked the Power Commander, and it appears the MAP is loaded correctly and holding.

Disengaged the GI-Pro/TRE, bike starts normally.

It deems the GI-Pro with the TRE enabled and the Power Commander are having a tug of war.

Does anyone have any experience with this condition?
Perhaps this would be expected?

Any ideas ?

 

[TurboSN95]

I have a somewhat similar situation.

I had the GI-Pro installed for about 7 months with no issues.

Bought a Power Commander PC-III and had it tuned on the dyno. Ran great for the ride home, the next morning I go to start the bike and it was stalling when trying to start the bike up. It did that for about three days, then I contacted the tuner who tuned my bike, and he had me check the cells in the Dynojet program. Everything was fine....

After about a week, I don't think it has ever happened again. I honestly can't say what fixed it, but so far for me it has been fine. Except for the first ride this spring, it was stalling at stop lights - but I think I had old gas, its been fine since I put fresh gas in it.

Sorry if this doesn't help at all, but I just wanted to throw it out there for you.

 

[solarbarack]

I had the same problem at the bash.Im not sure what the cause was. We ended up disconecting the PCIII USB. I still can't figure out the cause.

 

[arey]

I see you still have problems with hard starting. I have took down your mod's I will go by a dyno turner that's out here that has good knowledge on power commanders & let him know your problem he is about an hour away but I have to go by there tomorrow. Will let you know what could possibly be the problem.

 

[JusPlaynBob]

Thanks Arey!

I'm not at all displeased, it's just a little "Tweaking" I'm sure.
It's supposed to be nice this weekend so I may do a bit more trouble shooting.

Let me know if you find something.

Oh.
I picked up a USB to Serial adapter to link to my laptop.
It all communicates perfectly.

 

[JusPlaynBob]

It's supposed to be nice this weekend so I may do a bit more trouble shooting.

So I've spent a little "Quality time" with the bike today,
and there does appear to be a combination.

Without the GI-Pro Engaged, the bike is difficult to start.
Even in neutral.
It seems as though you have to give it some throttle and hold it til it starts.
Much like it is flooding.

With the GI-Pro engaged, and the bike in Neutral the bike starts without throttle after it turns over five to six times.

However, with the GI-Pro engaged, bike in first, the bike will not start unless to give it throttle and wait for it to clear it's throat.
Again like it's flooding.

I think....
the Power commander is telling the fuel system to squirt too much gas at start up while in the first gear MAP.
I think that with the bike in neutral less gas is being delivered at start up, but still too much, however with the timing advanced "a la TRE" it is enough to let the bike start.

I wonder if leaning out the fuel sytem at start up, with the "Low RPM button" on the PC a bit, will help?

Thoughts?

 

[TurboSN95]

Any chance you can get your hands on another GI-Pro?

 

[JusPlaynBob]

Unfortunately, they're not that plentiful.

I think I'm the only Busa for a hundred miles.
And the only one with a GI-Pro, that I've seen.

The only dealer in Canada is in Ontario, 3000 miles away.

 

[arey]

Ok. Yesterday I went to the dyno guy & told him your problem & your mod's. The first thing he ask was if the problem started when you installed the pc3r? I said yes. He said to try this,the pc3r has 2 big connectors & 2 small ones. Just leave the 2 big ones connected and eliminate the 2 small ones & connect them the way they originally was from your bike. If that solves your problem he said there is a an issue with the pc3r. Let me know if that solves your problem & I will refund you since this has been a problem from day one.

 

[kml]

I was displeased with all the free maps I've downloaded for the PCIIIusb. For the moment, till I can get it dynoed, I'm running the "zero" map and my GIpro in the 5th gear setting. Mine was hard to start, but only in first.

cheers
ken

 

[JusPlaynBob]

So it's starting better with the Zero MAP, Ken?

 

[JusPlaynBob]

I will refund you since this has been a problem from day one.

I'm sure I'll get it figured out.

How well did your bike start?
Do the mods on your bike match the MAP you were using?

I like a challenge.

 

[kml]

So it's starting better with the Zero MAP, Ken?

Mine was hard starting in first with the GIpro in fifth, with or with out the pcIIIusb. The zero map with the GIpro in fifth runs a lot cleaner and seems to start better, although I have not had troubles to the same extent as you have. The only thing any of the maps I tried improved was the slow speed 1st 2nd and 3rd lean jerky throttle responce. I am willing to live with that and not have it running way too rich. If I was in your shoes, (and I'm not) I'd try a zero map in the PCIIIusb and the GIpro back to stock. If it starts better I'd try the fifth gear setting in the GIpro and leave the PCIIIusb in zero until you can get it on a dyno.


Just my USD$ .0213 cents.


cheers
ken

 

[BIKE DUDE]

Did you try the lean adj at low rpm yet? I think that's the way to go.

 

[Over_Easy]

Have Yosh RS-3 bolt-ons, PCIII USB and GI PRO w/ Smart TRE. PCIII has a map downloaded from dealer for Yosh bolt-ons (so I was told from previous owner), but not sure what effect the GI PRO w/ 5th fuel map has on it if any. I only run the 5th gear map on days like today where top speed runs are likely. I just put it in Off or "-" mode the rest of the time.

I believe I do have more trouble starting with 5th gear fuel map on the TRE. I'll try both next time I fire it up.

 

[arey]

I will refund you since this has been a problem from day one.

I'm sure I'll get it figured out.

How well did your bike start?
Do the mods on your bike match the MAP you were using?

I like a challenge.

My bike had no starting problems with or without pc3r. The map I had installed was good match with the mods I have. Yoshi duplex header air box mod with k&n filter.

 

[Enginerd]

Does anyone know how you tell if the TRE function is actually on or not on the Gi-Pro? I am having the same problem, but if you start it and use the gas for a second or two at 2000 then let go it idles with the fast idle at 1500.

 

[JusPlaynBob]

My bike had no starting problems with or without pc3r. The map I had installed was good match with the mods I have. Yoshi duplex header air box mod with k&n filter.

See!
This is why this forum works.

It's obvious from the replies here that, the GI-Pro /Power Commander combination is the problem.

With the GI - PRo enabled,(timming advanced)

I am writing to GI-Pro with a couple of questions about it's compatibility with a Power Commander, although the web site says they will work together.
What it doesn't address id wether the unit TRE can be engaged at the same time.

I'll let you know what the reply is.

Thanks.